Not gonna lie...

[Rudy]

You're the one who sounds butthurt. You're entitled to your opinion, no matter how bad it is. 

[Harry]

39 minutes ago, meangreanmick said:

The only thing I am disappointed in is our fans.

Why is kicking the fanbase in the nuts always seem to be the default for UNT when things seem to be going south?  I think we have some of the most loyal fans around.  Do I wish there were more, yes I do.  I also realize that other than a great run back in the ice ages under Odus Mitchell (1946-66; 122-85); a six year good run under Hayden Fry before most on the site were born (1973-78; 40-23) and a 4 year conference championship run under Darrell Dickey (1998-2006) that saw us win 42 and lose 64, we have had very little consistent success on the field and even less investment and support from the administration. 

It will take time to erase these sins of the past and allow us to recapture the support of many successful alumni we have throughout the state and nation.  Perception is a difficult thing to change; it takes time and consistent messaging.  Fans are not just going to forget about your track record over the years and blindly jump on the bandwagon.

Here's the good news -- the light bulb went off for UNT in 1995 when we made the move back up to I-A.  Sadly, we did not fund, plan or support that endeavor to the fullest extent.  In 2011 we made a big step by building Apogee Stadium (HUGE) and significantly increasing our coaching salaries.  Now we have one of the best coaches in FBS, outstanding facilities including a new indoor practice facility being built and pay our coaches at the upper tier of our conference.  The administration, athletic department, coaching staff and big donors FINALLY seem to be on the same page.

We have just had two good seasons with 9 wins.  The future looks extremely bright under the leadership of AD Wren Baker.  If we can continue to build on this we will build our fanbase to levels never seen before.  

Part of the stress I sense about us potentially losing Littrell is our track record in hiring coaches has not been good.  In fact, if you look at our history, we have not hired a successful coach to replace a successful coach.  The closest we had was Jerry Moore who went 500 after Fry (11-11) before jumping ship to Texas Tech.  I think Wren Baker is going to do a great job with this hire, but not just because he is competent or good at what he does, but because he has RESOURCES at his disposal that we have not ever really had before.  Resources like good money to pay a good coach, great facilities, an administration and Board of Regents that understand the importance of athletics.

The fact of the matter is we are going to be good whatever happens with Littrell because good coaches are going to want to come here and be the next Littrell.  Heck it could be an existing coach because I think Tommy Mainord would make for a terrific hire.

So everyone needs to chill out and have faith that it will all work out in the end.  Go Mean Green!

[NorthTexasWeLove]

3 minutes ago, Rudy said:

You're the one who sounds butthurt. You're entitled to your opinion, no matter how bad it is. 

Not butthurt. Just don't understand how you can "100% Agree" with Emmitts practical dooms day post about our season success, bowl destination, of just the overall meaningless existence in the realm of college football world, and be like nah to trying to get the hell out of our current situation. Maybe independent isn't the answer, maybe it is. But it's at least trying to get the hell away from Old Dominion, FIU, MTSU, FAU, UTSA, UTEP, Charlotte, garbage. If we, their 'peers', consider them garbage then the rest of the college football world couldn't tell you their mascot, location, conference affiliation, etc. etc. And the thing is, many of the casual can't. We are not in a spring board conference anymore. We are in a dying league, and it will die, be rest assured of that. 

[Rudy]

I agree with getting out of the CUSA, but going Indy will kill us. Unless we schedule nothing but lower level P5 programs, with the occasional name P5 program, we won't get any respect. Even then we still won't have the TV deal. As it is now, we at least get some games televised because of our conference affiliation. 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

1 minute ago, Rudy said:

I agree with getting out of the CUSA, but going Indy will kill us. Unless we schedule nothing but lower level P5 programs, with the occasional name P5 program, we won't get any respect. Even then we still won't have the TV deal. As it is now, we at least get some games televised because of our conference affiliation. 

That is exactly what would have to happen. As I've stated on this in the past few weeks, we'd have to set this up moving forward starting now in regards to scheduling. Then inform CUSA of a 20XX departure and make sure all ducks are in order to finalize at least 3 or 4 straight years of only have to fill in the schedule, not create a full schedule. As far as the money, let's be real, it's already nothing and will be less and less sooner rather than later. If we schedule properly, we will get exposure each and every week, or most weeks just by default of our opponent. We will not have a conference championship to play for and I can live with that, especially if this works. But we will not be denied a bowl game when we get to 6 wins. 

We are in a format that is not sustainable. We do not have enough buy in from our fans to continue building upward, and we have just about nil TV money. 

Let's say we open up the 2022 as an Indy team with...

vs SMU

at Colorado

vs Mizzou

at Memphis

vs Texas State

at Ole Miss

vs Arkansas State

at LaTech

at Iowa State 

vs Texas Southern 

at Virginia

vs Texas Tech

That is a slate that would create great attendance, buzz, and not to mention being able to recruit to this kind of schedule as THE independent program of Texas. The difficult part of this would be having to create same scenarios for other sports, but it's doable. It's a lot of work, but if calculated and done with diligence and can be done. People get paid good money to make things like this happen. Also, in time, a schedule like this with success would make us relevant. If a team like us gets to 11-1 with this schedule there is no way we do not fall into the top 8, maybe even 10-2. I say 8 because the playoff will be at 8 by 2022/2023. 

[Cerebus]

So for your plan to work, you need 3 P5s at Apogee?  It's damn near impossible to get one a year now. 

Not to mention that when conference games roll around almost every team is booked for two months straight.

You want to see what a real, actual, g5 Indy schedule looks like? Go look at NMSUs schedule this year. Have fun playing liberty twice.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

2 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

So for your plan to work, you need 3 P5s at Apogee?  It's damn near impossible to get one a year now. 

Not to mention that when conference games roll around almost every team is booked for two months straight.

You want to see what a real, actual, g5 Indy schedule looks like? Go look at NMSUs schedule this year. Have fun playing liberty twice.

That's NMSU. Not UNT. And there's only 2 the first year going into this. There will eventually need 3 or 4 though for sure. 

OK, I'll stop, let's just sulk in our impotence. We are good at that, after all. 

[Cerebus]

2 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

That's NMSU. Not UNT. And there's only 2 the first year going into this. There will eventually need 3 or 4 though for sure. 

OK, I'll stop, let's just sulk in our impotence. We are good at that, after all. 

Who do you see going Indy that we can copy? Notre Dame? BYU?

We're not in that discussion.  Look at when army was Indy, the had two fcs games a year constantly.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

Just now, Cerebus said:

Who do you see going Indy that we can copy? Notre Dame? BYU?

We're not in that discussion.  Look at when army was Indy, the had two fcs games a year constantly.

Army is indy. 

[CMJ]

2 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Army is indy. 

Yes, and other than Hawaii - which home game of theirs was so awesome?

[Cerebus]

2 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Army is indy. 

Sorry, meant look at schedule now vs when they were in CUSA.

They played lafayette, Colgate, and Fordham this year.

If you want to play 3 SLC teams every year, going Indy is a great way to do it.

[FirefightnRick]

We have been Independent twice that I know of and it was a disaster both times.

 We are conference affiliated and are never going back.

 

Rick

[greenminer]

I have a hunch going Indy would be even worse for us than the first time.  The money gap is even wider.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

1 minute ago, Cerebus said:

Sorry, meant look at schedule now vs when they were in CUSA.

They played lafayette, Colgate, and Fordham this year.

If you want to play 3 SLC teams every year, going Indy is a great way to do it.

I get what you're saying, but I'm not comparing us to Army...you are. Army is a program for the sake of having a program for their academy students. They know they are at their plateau. They sort of have no choice given their weight/height restrictions put on the academy schools that they have to at least try to adhere to...hence the triple option. I also think Army chooses to play these schools rather than it being dictated to them. I know that they and Lafayette are long time rivals from long ago. 

I am not sure as to why it would be difficult to schedule. Would we be less attractive as an Independent program than a CUSA program? Could we keep all of our currently scheduled opponents or are those games only schedule in lieu of us as a CUSA program? Could we not go around the state of Texas, Louisiana, OK, Arkansas and help fill their OOC schedules for us to create an actual schedule? 

I am trying to see the (football) positives of staying in comparison to leaving. The only one I see and that you guys point out here is the guaranteed 8 games on the docket. But also the 200K-ish TV dollars for being associated with CUSA. If this is where we are as a program, then so be it. I guess for whoever is going to New Mexico, enjoy. I may try to make it out myself. 

 

[Cerebus]

Ben my question is simple: which G5 Indy schedule would you have wanted this year? We're not getting 3 P5 teams into spine Apogee every year. If we go indy it'll be hard enough getting 3 G5 years to Denton.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

Just now, Cerebus said:

Ben my question is simple: which G5 Indy schedule would you have wanted this year? We're not getting 3 P5 teams into spine Apogee every year. If we go indy it'll be hard enough getting 3 G5 years to Denton.

Why? Why do you say that? What takeaway makes you believe it. 

I'm sure you are referring to home schedule? But I would swap UMASS with us if it means we call our shots moving forward. They hosted both USF and BYU...and they are in Massachusetts. We are a centralized location in the country. I have little doubt we would not be able to form a respectable schedule. 

[Cerebus]

Ben my question is simple: which G5 Indy schedule would you have wanted this year?

[NorthTexasWeLove]

2 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Ben my question is simple: which G5 Indy schedule would you have wanted this year?

Dang man...I thought you were smarter. U. M. A. S. S. 

[Cerebus]

2 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Dang man...I thought you were smarter. U. M. A. S. S. 

So one fcs team, one sec team on the road, Liberty, and zero P5 teams at home.

That's the same schedule we had this year except they have ZERO BOWL TIE INS.

If that's your best plan, hard pass.

[meangreenlax]

23 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

So one fcs team, one sec team on the road, Liberty, and zero P5 teams at home.

That's the same schedule we had this year except they have ZERO BOWL TIE INS.

If that's your best plan, hard pass.

All risk, no reward.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

26 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

So one fcs team, one sec team on the road, Liberty, and zero P5 teams at home.

That's the same schedule we had this year except they have ZERO BOWL TIE INS.

If that's your best plan, hard pass.

I really didn't look at all the INDY schedules outside of Army and UMASS tbh. But, I don't have the answers. I don't get paid to have the answers. Again, if we're happy here to have what we have and do what we're doing and treading water, then tread on I guess is all I have to say. I will say I did like the SMU, LaTech, and SoMiss home slate we had this year. 

[Cerebus]

Just now, NorthTexasWeLove said:

I really didn't look at all the INDY schedules outside of Army and UMASS tbh.

That's pretty clear, since it's a terrible idea. We've done it more than once, and it's always been a train wreck.

Pretty easy to imagine a timeline where Fry doesn't take us Indy and we are sitting in the AAC at least right now.

Going Indy right now would guarantee we don't make the post B12 top not p5 conference.

[MCMLXXX]

3 hours ago, Cerebus said:

@emmitt01 losing would SL would definitely suck, no doubt.  He would also be the first coach hired away to be a head coach somewhere else since... Fry in 1978.

So I consider it more of a cup check instead of a full on kick to the jewels.  

Why does everyone forget Jerry Moore?

[NorthTexasWeLove]

Just now, Cerebus said:

That's pretty clear, since it's a terrible idea. We've done it more than once, and it's always been a train wreck.

Pretty easy to imagine a timeline where Fry doesn't take us Indy and we are sitting in the AAC at least right now.

Going Indy right now would guarantee we don't make the post B12 top not p5 conference.

I mean we have, but the reasonings were steered in different directions. Doing it this way would be far and away different than what and why for UNT has done in the past. 

[MCMLXXX]

8 hours ago, Cerebus said:

That's pretty clear, since it's a terrible idea. We've done it more than once, and it's always been a train wreck.

Pretty easy to imagine a timeline where Fry doesn't take us Indy and we are sitting in the AAC at least right now.

Going Indy right now would guarantee we don't make the post B12 top not p5 conference.

Not to mention indy is a killer in basketball. Some of our best basketball teams in the mid to late 70's could never sniff the post season because of our indy status.