Is 8 Wins/Year Littrell's Ceiling Here?

[Big Z]

My boss said to me this morning, you guys could possibly go 10-2 and not play for a conference championship? This is really hard to swallow...

[untjim1995]

1 minute ago, Big Z said:

My boss said to me this morning, you guys could possibly go 10-2 and not play for a conference championship? This is really hard to swallow...

I'll tell you what's hard to swallow:

Losing to a FCS school from Oregon by 59 points as your team literally quits on the school...at home...on Homecoming...with the worst collection of QBs that a FBS school has ever run out on a field...on your way to a 1-win season...which was the 10th losing season out of the previous 11 seasons...and the 7th time in those 11 years where we won 3 games or less...and had an AD that looked like he was so insulated that he'd be here for life, since he had been on the job for 15 years and had hired the three worst coaches of ALL TIME in our history for the 3 revenue sports.

Now get off my lawn...

[meangreenJW]

1 hour ago, TheColonyEagle said:

Considering he won 9 last year...I guess the obvious answer to the original question is.........no?

Maybe I don't understand the question or the meaning of the word "ceiling"

 

Maybe the ceiling is the floor? IDK

[Cerebus]

11 minutes ago, meangreenJW said:

Maybe the ceiling is the floor? IDK

The floor... is lava?  

[Aldo]

Started with the end of the Dickey run, and trudged through the highs and lowest of lows through Dodge and McCarney.

We have a expectations now, and that's what big boy programs do.

We expected UNT to beat LaTech to take control of the division.

We didn't and so relied on UAB to take some of that control away from LaTech.

We expected UNT to beat UAB in what was the game to decide the division.

We didn't and we're out of the championship running.

The expectation now is bowl games are automatic and we have to shoot for the championship.

It's okay - nay, fantastic - that we can now say we're disappointed with only going to a bowl.

We don't have to say "well back in 2015..." cause eff that. We are this team now. We are not 2015. We should win when it needs to happen AGAINST CONFERENCE USA level talent

Edited October 22, 2018 by Aldo

[Big Z]

24 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I'll tell you what's hard to swallow:

Losing to a FCS school from Oregon by 59 points as your team literally quits on the school...at home...on Homecoming...with the worst collection of QBs that a FBS school has ever run out on a field...on your way to a 1-win season...which was the 10th losing season out of the previous 11 seasons...and the 7th time in those 11 years where we won 3 games or less...and had an AD that looked like he was so insulated that he'd be here for life, since he had been on the job for 15 years and had hired the three worst coaches of ALL TIME in our history for the 3 revenue sports.

Now get off my lawn...

I was there and flew in my mom and dad for that game. Trust me, it was a embarrassing day for me and my wallet. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by Big Z

[Wag Tag]

What determines a ceiling? Resources! With the salaries, App, IPFand Admin Support we better have an unlimited ceiling! The $ committed and new facilities will be the top in C-USA! You want to see the future of North Texas look at the 2019 recruiting class! There is no ceiling!

[NorthTexasWeLove]

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

You are missing quite a bit, but I have a feeling explaining it will fall on deaf ears.

Coming from you, most definitely. 

[UNTLifer]

On 10/21/2018 at 10:36 AM, FirefightnRick said:

Good lord!

100% don’t agree.

The wins are one thing.  The culture is a whole other thing.

Look at the quality of coaches and players he’s brought in.  Look at their attitude and the classhe’s about to sign.

Coach Littrell is in only his third season as a head coach.  He’s still learning and has surpassed anything anyone ever imagined he would become at this point.

Your not  paying attention my friend.

 

Rick

[Pavlovs Eagle]

4 hours ago, UNT Five&Dime said:

So everyone is okay that we are 2-2 in conference, good enough for 4th in the West? All because we are 6-2 overall?

Three goals: Win Division, Win Conference, Win Bowl.

Two of those aren't going to happen, and you're lying to yourself if you are confident in the third happening.

WE ARE FOURTH IN CUSA WEST. STOP BEING HAPPY.

bUt wE bEaT aRkAnSaS! 🤪

 

🙄

[NT93]

2 hours ago, MGNation92 said:

I didn't say division. I said conference. You win the conference championship game, you pick your bowl. 

I guess you can't comprehend what I said.

Edit: Thanks to the Mod for correcting what I said. I crossed the line, because apparently implying someone is a moron is okay, but outwardly calling them one is not.

and my response:

I agree, division championships don't mean much, but tell me where I said that they did to begin with?

You never said it, and I never said you did.  I said it in my original post.  I was just making the point that you have to win the division to play for the conference championship and if you lose that game, winning the division doesn't mean much.  You called my post "the dumbest thing I've read in this thread", so I assumed you didn't agree with that part either.  I mean, how could you possibly agree with any part of the dumbest post in a thread filled with dumb posts? 

You're correct, conference champion does get the pick of the bad bowls.  Still seems to me that S.Miss got the best bowl game last year, so I'm not sure that's a big advantage.   

I'm just saying, 10-2 and going to the bad bowl we're placed in is better than going 7-4 and choosing our bad bowl.  

Let's be honest, winning CUSA is not the most prestigious thing to the casual fan.  Winning 10 games is generally pretty impressive though.

[untlynchka1]

To all the people that are down on Littrell for being where we are in his 3rd year after the team he inherited is laughable. 

I mean....seriously!

We were in the bottom 10, and not as a joke!

Should we settle for where we are....no, absolutely not, but should we be realistic and realize that we aren’t to a point yet where we CAN be that cocky?  Yes, we should! 

If you objectively looked at Littrell vs Tom Herman, who would you say has done the better job? 

 

Guess my point is, you newbies, don’t dismiss the vets POV because they have........ perspective. 

Now say, it’s year 6, and we are flattening out at 10 or 11 wins a year, then maybe we know that is our ceiling, so let’s enjoy it! Like Boise does. 

 

 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

5 hours ago, untlynchka1 said:

To all the people that are down on Littrell for being where we are in his 3rd year after the team he inherited is laughable. 

I mean....seriously!

We were in the bottom 10, and not as a joke!

Should we settle for where we are....no, absolutely not, but should we be realistic and realize that we aren’t to a point yet where we CAN be that cocky?  Yes, we should! 

If you objectively looked at Littrell vs Tom Herman, who would you say has done the better job? 

 

Guess my point is, you newbies, don’t dismiss the vets POV because they have........ perspective. 

Now say, it’s year 6, and we are flattening out at 10 or 11 wins a year, then maybe we know that is our ceiling, so let’s enjoy it! Like Boise does. 

 

 

Lol....Herman has UT at #6 in the country and 1st place in the Big12. Pump sunshines more efficiently. 

As things stand now...the difference between 2016 and 2018 is miniscule going by strictly standings. We finished 4th in the West in 2016. We are currently 4th in the west in 2018. The difference that is getting everyone giddy is tbe OOC success. Instead of playing a physical SEC div winning UF team we played a downtroddwn Arkansas team. Rather than playing a SMU team with a couple 1st rd draft picks, we played a SMU team with a 1st yr HC. Flip the schedule around we could be easily sitting at 4-4. 

And not to dump more rain, but our OOC slate next year doesn't get easier, though not sure how it could. We have to travel to an improving Cal team and we have Houston paired with our annual showdown with SMU...this time @ SMU. This OOC slate packs much more of a punch than the creampuff we took on this year. 

And I'm not down on Littrell at all. I'm down on whoever is calling the plays. 

 

[DallasGreen]

On 10/22/2018 at 8:29 AM, GreenTexan13 said:

First of all.. Season is not lost. I would ask you to explain why you think the season is lost, but your going to elaborate on a conference championship and other stuff, that I dont care to hear about anymore. We didn't lose this game because of Fine, his fumble was one of the smaller things that contributed to a loss.

I also ask what you felt is going right? Because I can tell you that 6-2 at this point of the season is incredible. And we couldn't of become bowl eligible so early, without him at the helm. 

Bowl eligible should not be the bar at this point in the program after so much financial support from fans, admins, and student fees. Much more has been done with so much less. We won’t even have the choice of a bowl not being in the conference championship. It’s not that this has not been a season in which we beat two uncharacteristicly weak teams in SMU & ARK, but we had so much more in our grasp leading handily at halftime and getting the ball to start the second half. We proceed to put up a goose egg on offense and thoroughly quit on defense ( ala the Dodge years).. We continue year after year to lose in big games. La Tech was not due to lack of effort, but second half against UAB was worst football played this year.

[MeanGreenTexan]

3 minutes ago, DallasGreen said:

Bowl eligible should not be the bar at this point in the program after so much financial support from fans, admins, and student fees. Much more has been done with so much less. We won’t even have the choice of a bowl not being in the conference championship. It’s not that this has not been a season in which we beat two uncharacteristicly weak teams in SMU & ARK, but we had so much more in our grasp leading handily at halftime and getting the ball to start the second half. We proceed to put up a goose egg on offense and thoroughly quit on defense ( ala the Dodge years).. We continue year after year to lose in big games. La Tech was not due to lack of effort, but second half against UAB was worst football played this year.

You could not be more wrong.

There's an oceanic chasm between "quitting", and "getting beat".  Surely any UNT fan can see the difference, ESPECIALLY one who saw the Portland St. game.
We were beat by UAB.  Plain & simple.   And we killed ourselves with penalties & boneheaded plays VS LATech.  But I saw ZERO quit from any of the guys in either game though.  That's why we were still in both games until the very end.

The sleepwalking/shellshocked team that travelled to UTEP played the worst football so far this season, and nearly paid for it.

[DallasGreen]

2 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

You could not be more wrong.

There's an oceanic chasm between "quitting", and "getting beat".  Surely any UNT fan can see the difference, ESPECIALLY one who saw the Portland St. game.
We were beat by UAB.  Plain & simple.   And we killed ourselves with penalties & boneheaded plays VS LATech.  But I saw ZERO quit from any of the guys in either game though.  That's why we were still in both games until the very end.

The sleepwalking/shellshocked team that travelled to UTEP played the worst football so far this season, and nearly paid for it.

I was at UTEP.   We woke up at halftime from being overconfident. There we made adjustments and played a different second half. At UAB we were completely out played and out coached in the second half and we knew what was at stake and chose to not respond. Maybe the team remembered the piss poor crowd for So. Miss and thought if others don’t care why should we care 

[NT93]

1 minute ago, DallasGreen said:

I was at UTEP.   We woke up at halftime from being overconfident. There we made adjustments and played a different second half. At UAB we were completely out played and out coached in the second half and we knew what was at stake and chose to not respond. Maybe the team remembered the piss poor crowd for So. Miss and thought if others don’t care why should we care 

Is there really any other logical explanation???

[TheColonyEagle]

26 minutes ago, NT93 said:

Is there really any other logical explanation???

I have to be honest....I hadn't considered that reasoning....

[97and03]

The biggest problem with the D in the two losses has been the O hanging them out to dry by not scoring or even having sustained drives at times. The second half is literally the worst time for 3 and outs. 

[untjim1995]

55 minutes ago, DallasGreen said:

I was at UTEP.   We woke up at halftime from being overconfident. There we made adjustments and played a different second half. At UAB we were completely out played and out coached in the second half and we knew what was at stake and chose to not respond. Maybe the team remembered the piss poor crowd for So. Miss and thought if others don’t care why should we care 

Are you Ben Gooding’s Dad?

[NorthTexasWeLove]

15 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

Are you Ben Gooding’s Dad?

Don't believe he is...mine is 6 ft under going on 11 years. 

And when I need SWC or budget comments I will chime you in, otherwise quit posting. We've had this conversation already. 

[untjim1995]

3 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Don't believe he is...mine is 6 ft under going on 11 years. 

And when I need SWC or budget comments I will chime you in, otherwise quit posting. We've had this conversation already. 

Looks like someone has been injecting themselves with the Novocain again...and yes, I'd tell it to your face...

[NorthTexasWeLove]

4 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

Looks like someone has been injecting themselves with the Novocain again...and yes, I'd tell it to your face...

Uh huh

[untjim1995]

51 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Uh huh

I’m sure @Censored by Laurie Will remember that invitation you made...

[meangreen2016]

I think the points being made here are both correct. Should we have higher expectations? ABSOLUTELY. According to Underdog dynasty, "After being 5-0 in one-possession games in 2017, the Mean Green are now 1-2 in such games this season."  We got worse in an area that we were very good in last season. How does that happen? Possibly coaching, possibly player mindset. In reality, all of that mixed together and more. Coaches should definitely be held accountable. That's what you do at a program that is trying to get away from losing and move towards a winning culture. 

It's extremely frustrating, but you do NOT throw the people that got you here under the bus. You trust the those people to get you out again because that's what they've done before in an even worse circumstance. Littrell is the best bet we have at becoming a relevant football program. He's going to be something special, and while he makes mistakes (which he owns up to) he always improves on those things. Example: Defense from last year was garbage- significant jump. Mason Fine sacked too many times last year- significant jump (although now it seems worse). Win total improved 4+ first two seasons and probably going to improve again. Does he need to win the big games? Heck yes. That's something you don't immediately start doing as a first time head coach at a program that hasn't ever been known for winning important games. 

Yes other areas are worse too, but I think we can say that a huge reason our offense hasn't been as productive is because our RBs aren't as good as Wilson. The one back that looked promising went down for the season. Sometimes you can only do so much adjusting and after that you trust your players to make a play. 

It's cool to be upset about losing. I HATE losing with a passion. But let's not roast each other in the comments section over it. We gotta be better fans. Don't throw away the season just yet. It's not a conference championship, but there's still a chance to go 11-2 (with a bowl win) and there are worse seasons to have. I'm liking the high expectations, though. Shows I'm not the only one hyped about UNT football. 

GMG