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Harry

What is the G5 model program we should aspire to?

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We all feel the excitement of the past two seasons in football and last season in basketball as wind behind our back heading into what appears to be a very promising year for both sports.   The dark clouds of the DMac and Benford regimes are starting to clear and a bright future seems possible again.

My question for all of you is what is the end game?   Is there a program with a similar storyline to follow?  If there was a G5 model or success story which one would it be?  Boise State always seems to come into this conversation.  Central Florida seems to be a program that shares some similarities to us.  I would also include Houston in that mix as a big public college that has raised their profile to where they can consistently compete with the p5's.

We all agree that consistent winning will bear fruit.  But that alone is probably not enough.  What are the things beyond winning that can help us get to the next level?  I feel like the opportunity to be a part of the p5 is probably a longshot but we should certainly have a goal to be one of the top 5-10 g5 programs year in and year out.  If we could do that, we would be best positioned for any future opportunities that may open up.

When I think of both Houston and Central Florida it seems like despite whatever hurdles they have faced, their leadership has done a very good job of hiring coaches and AD staff.  Let's be honest here, Wren, Littrell and McCasland will all get better opportunities as they continue to succeed in Denton.   What is going to be key is that the UNT leadership (Smatresk, Roe, Brint Ryan, Ernie, Loveless etc) continue to put an emphasis on funding and supporting a successful athletic program.  Houston's president Renu Khator has moved mountains in that's schools culture and understanding and support of athletics.  They have not yet made it back to the p5 but they are in a small handful of programs who are ready for if and when that time comes again.

 

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I think you have nailed the top 3 we should be striving to become. New football field, up graded to the weight room, major major upgrade to soccer and track facilities ( visit if you can) up grading the alumni pavilion and an IPF!!  With the university matching funds the upside is great!! No excuses!! GMG

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I would say lets stop focusing on the inevitability of losing good coaches.  Instead lets focus on the fact that we have the  leadership and structural organization in place now to continue our success no matter who is hired away.  Lets convince the local alumni that winning is the new culture of North Texas Athletics and that there is something to be proud of going on in Denton Texas.  Lets convince those same alumni that no matter how long it takes the program will never be happy until we reach the highest levels of college athletics.  People inherently want to be associated with winners and upward trajectory.  It's time to convince alumni that UNT is doing all the things that need to be done to make their degrees more valuable via academics and athletics.    Lets sell this story to the Alumni and get them on board as this whole thing goes nowhere from here without more fans and more donors.  

 

 

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Good examples. I’d toss Colorado State into the conversation as well. Their new facilities investments have them positioned well for the future if they can consistently perform on the field/court.

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We are already basically the "U of H" of the metroplex. We just haven't had the success in Athletics and branding that they've had.

North Texas and UH are very similar. 

We just have a real hard time with ownership (outside of music). So many of our alumni start at whatever school but finish at UNT. (Houston has this same issue) I wish there was a clever way to market this. A way to show pride in finishing strong.

We're still considered a B-list school unless you want to be a teacher, Jazz Musician, or something with RTVF. Otherwise were still most people's 2nd choice. I don't know that success in athletics will change that. What it will do is bring us more notoriety, which is a really really good thing.   

Athletics is the doorbell of your university.... or something like that. 

Great conversation topic!!

 

Edited by agw0038
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Harry, I would agree with your three examples. Boise is obviously the G5 example and has been for several years. From a size standpoint, UH is similar however they still (believe it or not) have SWC cred. Which we don't have. So from a perception standpoint, they will always have that going for them...especially local media perception.

One thing all of the high profile G5 programs have, and it seems to be a prerequisite for being considered in the upper echelon...they have wins over P5s. Big wins. Boise is still getting the benefit of beating OU. UH started beating big programs. UCF beat Auburn. 

We have to win these and get ranked.

We have an infrastructure in place:  Facilities, numbers, size, location. This is actually a leg up and an advantage....a lot of teams that may win....will never have that...

However

We have to check off two more boxes: beat a big boy, get ranked.

Once we do...I think we we will see this thing explode.

 

Edited by TheColonyEagle
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I would aspire to be like a P5 on the G5 level.  If UH and UCF are programs we admire then let's set our sights on what they are doing and exceed them.  Our goals should direct us to where we want to go not where we are currently.

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1 hour ago, agw0038 said:

We are already basically the "U of H" of the metroplex. We just haven't had the success in Athletics and branding that they've had.

Houston doesn't share a market with a SMU or a TCU.

Are they drowned out in the local media by other teams, like we are SMU/TCU and B12?

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The Houston market covers UH very well, but they "share" time with A$M, UT, LSU and to a lesser degree Rice.  The are covered in that area much better than the DFW stations cover us.  Then again, when we are winning the coverage is there.

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I don't want to follow another school's G5 model. We can be much more if we define our own path to success.

I have a simple philosophy... Be the first to do something, or be the best to do something. If you can't do either, do something else.

We don't need to follow another program's plan. We need to be innovative and develop new and unique ideas and traditions that will engage more of our alumni and gain more interest from local and national media.. The Great Battle Flag is a prime example. That thing is very unique.  Sadly, we could be doing more with that.

Edited by Side Show Joe
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Obviously, the dream scenario would be to do what TCU did & work our way up BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY (yes, even if it means having to sacrifice 1 or two west coast games per year) to a seat at a table with UT/OU/OSU/Tech/TCU/Baylor.

Otherwise, being considered a TOP5 G5 program consistently like Boise St or Houston are, by making fantastic hire after fantastic hire would be the next choice.

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Interesting that I see posts saying you want consistent winning, but also posts to be like UCF.  They are very inconsistent.  They have losing seasons 4 of the last 10 years including 0-12 three seasons ago.

But I'd take those huge up seasons (2 major bowl wins and an undefeated season) with the big down seasons rather than consistent 7-5 or 8-4

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3 hours ago, agw0038 said:

We're still considered a B-list school unless you want to be a teacher, Jazz Musician, or something with RTVF. Otherwise were still most people's 2nd choice.

That is just completely untrue.  We are the top school in the state for many programs.  I'm sorry you feel bad about whatever you got a degree from NT from, but there are incredible programs here.  

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1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Obviously, the dream scenario would be to do what TCU did & work our way up BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY (yes, even if it means having to sacrifice 1 or two west coast games per year) to a seat at a table with UT/OU/OSU/Tech/TCU/Baylor.

Otherwise, being considered a TOP5 G5 program consistently like Boise St or Houston are, by making fantastic hire after fantastic hire would be the next choice.

But time zones, man???!!! And newspapers not being able to have a story about the game the next day...

Why do you hate old people??

You know I'm messing with you--we agree on the MWC angle every bit as much today as we ever have--and we are deeply in the minority of UNT fans on that, sadly.

I do believe--still--that the Big XII will eventually fall apart because the Pac 12 finally figures out how to network its league and add in members from the CST to compliment what they already have in the other two time zones. When it happens, some combo of the Texoma 4 and Kansas are going to head west to the Pac and the B1G. When it happens, I could see WVU finally getting a place in the ACC/SEC. If you are Iowa State, KSU, TCU, and Baylor, you're gonna be $hit outta luck. What I could see is the western AAC teams moving into the Big XII with the leftovers, seeing UH, SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa join ISU, KSU, TCU, and Baylor. And that's when the AAC raids eastern CUSA schools and the MWC finally gets back into Texas, inviting some combo of UTEP, UTSA, Rice, and us to join them. 

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8 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

That is just completely untrue.  We are the top school in the state for many programs.  I'm sorry you feel bad about whatever you got a degree from NT from, but there are incredible programs here.  

It's always been a lazy argument and obviously continues to be. 

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3 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

But time zones, man???!!! And newspapers not being able to have a story about the game the next day...

Why do you hate old people??

You know I'm messing with you--we agree on the MWC angle every bit as much today as we ever have--and we are deeply in the minority of UNT fans on that, sadly.

I do believe--still--that the Big XII will eventually fall apart because the Pac 12 finally figures out how to network its league and add in members from the CST to compliment what they already have in the other two time zones. When it happens, some combo of the Texoma 4 and Kansas are going to head west to the Pac and the B1G. When it happens, I could see WVU finally getting a place in the ACC/SEC. If you are Iowa State, KSU, TCU, and Baylor, you're gonna be $hit outta luck. What I could see is the western AAC teams moving into the Big XII with the leftovers, seeing UH, SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa join ISU, KSU, TCU, and Baylor. And that's when the AAC raids eastern CUSA schools and the MWC finally gets back into Texas, inviting some combo of UTEP, UTSA, Rice, and us to join them. 

If we stand pat, we could probably push for one of those AAC backfills and be in a pretty decent spot.  Wouldn't have to go West at all.

Or... we can make ourselves attractive enough for the big12 backfill spot you've assigned to SMU.   Can we do that by winning 8-9 games per year in C-USA?  I don't know.   But if moving to MWC and winning 8-9 games/year out there against the likes of Boise St and other teams on that level (slightly above C-USA level in every sports fans' eyes) would help, I'd be all for it.

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No, unfortunately this is very true. 

The University of North Texas has some of the top programs in the state  - this is a FACT 

We, however, are not talking about facts. We're talking about opinion, and more specifically perception.

We are not a b-list or 2nd chance school because of our programs, no, we are a b-list or 2nd chance school because we perceived as being such. Even in recruiting,  rarely is UNT the kids' first choice. Often we are the best fit. And there isn't necessarily anything wrong with that.

Now as to the origin of this perception.... we can debate that but I'd say it's combination of lackluster athletics and a commuter school vibe. 

many in higher education disagree, but the quickest way to get people to take a 2nd look at UNT, and in doing so, come to the realization (through research or whatever) that we are one of the top Universities in Texas is for our football and basketball programs to have consistent success.

That's how it works in Texas.

People identify with athletics. 

Bottom line we need to win!!! And win a lot!!!

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4 hours ago, TheColonyEagle said:

One thing all of the high profile G5 programs have, and it seems to be a prerequisite for being considered in the upper echelon...they have wins over P5s. Big wins. Boise is still getting the benefit of beating OU. UH started beating big programs. UCF beat Auburn. 

We have to win these and get ranked.

Agreed - the amount of excitement generated from a big, marquee win is amazing and really helps to propel a program to the next level.

I remember our "win" against Texas in 1988.  The amount of excitement from that one game was huge.

A win at Arkansas this year would go a long way   🙂

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Until just recently, Southern Miss was a good example.  They had a motto, “Anyone, anyplace.”  And I think, without checking records, they did themselves proud.  La Tech is another program that has been consistently successful until the last couple of years.  

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5 hours ago, agw0038 said:

No, unfortunately this is very true. 

The University of North Texas has some of the top programs in the state  - this is a FACT 

We, however, are not talking about facts. We're talking about opinion, and more specifically perception.

We are not a b-list or 2nd chance school because of our programs, no, we are a b-list or 2nd chance school because we perceived as being such. Even in recruiting,  rarely is UNT the kids' first choice. Often we are the best fit. And there isn't necessarily anything wrong with that.

Now as to the origin of this perception.... we can debate that but I'd say it's combination of lackluster athletics and a commuter school vibe. 

many in higher education disagree, but the quickest way to get people to take a 2nd look at UNT, and in doing so, come to the realization (through research or whatever) that we are one of the top Universities in Texas is for our football and basketball programs to have consistent success.

That's how it works in Texas.

People identify with athletics. 

Bottom line we need to win!!! And win a lot!!!

This is hard to debate.  I mean, everyone I know who was not de facto attending their "family school" or had a very specific path in mind was, in fact,  interested in researching their options.  Every one of those said people who explored their options paid attention to the college ratings/publications and how their future colleges stacked up.

I suppose you're point could be more applicable to students who don't really know what they want to do, other than simply attend "a college" to get "some degree".  They're not really interested in researching something they are not fully invested in.

Edited by greenminer

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15 hours ago, agw0038 said:

We are not a b-list or 2nd chance school because of our programs, no, we are a b-list or 2nd chance school because we perceived as being such. Even in recruiting,  rarely is UNT the kids' first choice. Often we are the best fit. And there isn't necessarily anything wrong with that.

I think UNT's issue right now is that while there are certainly some top notch programs, they are not all top notch across the board.  UNT is still on the board for my daughter, but she's telling me flat out that she wants, and I quote, "More difficult classes." 

She's leaning toward engineering, and she's not finding much substance there at UNT yet.  

Granted, she'll only be in sophomore classes this coming year, and I always maintain the first two years are pretty much the same whether you go to Cisco Jr. College or Harvard.  

I don't know what the reality is vs. perception for her case, and I think that's a big part of the problem.  It's impossible for me to ferret out the facts. 

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19 hours ago, greenminer said:

Houston doesn't share a market with a SMU or a TCU.

Are they drowned out in the local media by other teams, like we are SMU/TCU and B12?

Yeah... theres a school just down the road from them that gets a little attention in that part of the state.  

Have you heard of atm?  

Also, theres a HUGE fanbase in Houston for LSU.  

Yes... they have competition for fanbase.

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3 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

I think UNT's issue right now is that while there are certainly some top notch programs, they are not all top notch across the board.  UNT is still on the board for my daughter, but she's telling me flat out that she wants, and I quote, "More difficult classes." 

She's leaning toward engineering, and she's not finding much substance there at UNT yet.  

Granted, she'll only be in sophomore classes this coming year, and I always maintain the first two years are pretty much the same whether you go to Cisco Jr. College or Harvard.  

I don't know what the reality is vs. perception for her case, and I think that's a big part of the problem.  It's impossible for me to ferret out the facts. 

It's absolute perception. Has she taken engineering classes at UNT yet? If not, what is this lack of substance she is referring to? Or the minimal difficulty? Just seems like an extreme perceptionally based opinion that was formed by chitter chatter than experience. If she has taken these courses and is underwhelmed, I digress. 

 

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