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Former Bball players under investigation

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5 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

The crime was committed on campus, thus the jurisdiction of UNT PD.  Yes, I read that.  Kind of like when a crime is committed in Denton, the Denton PD investigate.  Your argument is hollow.  

I also read that they had hired an independent firm to investigate, something you equate to CYA.  CYA is when Baylor had their own Board investigate, not an independent outside firm.

Shocked that you can't see a conflict of interest between a PD that answers to a university president conducting an investigation into something that could give the university a black eye. Shocked, I tell ya.

Chancres are the UNT PD is doing what they should be doing in this thing. If they were going to bury it, it never hits the news. BUT, you need to avoid ANY appearance of impropriety. Hand the investigation over. 

Lifer apparently doesn't understand that UNT is inside the Denton city limits and inside Denton County, giving both Denton PD and Denton SO jurisdiction. He also doesn't realize that UNT is located inside the state of Texas, giving the Rangers jurisdiction. 

UNT isn't its own city nor is it it's own state, just be be clear.

Edited by UNT90
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41 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Shocked that you can't see a conflict of interest between a PD that answers to a university president conducting an investigation into something that could give the university a black eye. Shocked, I tell ya.

Chancres are the UNT PD is doing what they should be doing in this thing. If they were going to bury it, it never hits the news. BUT, you need to avoid ANY appearance of impropriety. Hand the investigation over. 

Lifer apparently doesn't understand that UNT is inside the Denton city limits and inside Denton County, giving both Denton PD and Denton SO jurisdiction. He also doesn't realize that UNT is located inside the state of Texas, giving the Rangers jurisdiction. 

UNT isn't its own city nor is it it's own state, just be be clear.

So in your world why does UNT have a police department?  Doesn't every crime that happens at the University impact the University?  Therefore, using your logic of not being controversial, they should hand over every crime to the Denton PD.  

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1 minute ago, GreenN'walinsVet said:

So in your world why does UNT have a police department?  Doesn't every crime that happens at the University impact the University?  Therefore, using your logic of not being controversial, they should hand over every crime to the Denton PD.  

Every serious crime that presents a publicity problem and a possible liability to UNT, yes. Do you seriously think UNT PD would work a murder that occurred on campus? No. They aren't equipped to do so.

I'm sure UNT has fine officers, but they don't deal with major crimes and I would bet no one at the PD has ever worked a human trafficking case or a prostitution case. 

Its not what a university PD does. 

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UNT is State property, UNT PD is a State office, therefore they are state officers. 

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5 minutes ago, filmerj said:

UNT is State property, UNT PD is a State office, therefore they are state officers. 

It's not uncommon for UNT-PD to assist Denton PD. It happens more than people think.

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1 hour ago, filmerj said:

UNT is State property, UNT PD is a State office, therefore they are state officers. 

Just to be clear, you believe UNT PD is the equivalent of the Rangers?

1 hour ago, UNTFan23 said:

It's not uncommon for UNT-PD to assist Denton PD. It happens more than people think.

On traffic stops and disturbance calls, yes. On investigating any major crime? No. 

Quite the difference that your all day pro UNT narrative can't get past.

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7 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Every serious crime that presents a publicity problem and a possible liability to UNT, yes. Do you seriously think UNT PD would work a murder that occurred on campus? No. They aren't equipped to do so.

I'm sure UNT has fine officers, but they don't deal with major crimes and I would bet no one at the PD has ever worked a human trafficking case or a prostitution case. 

Its not what a university PD does. 

I have to disagree with you there.  UNTPD is as equipped to handle a majority of their situations as most of your PD's.  IF they come across something they don't have the equipment, training, or experience to handle, they an bring in additional resources.  A majority of your law enforcement have specialized training in certain fields, IE human trafficking, prostitution, narcotics, accident reconstruction, auto theft, etc.  Various officers have different specialized training.  

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7 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Just to be clear, you believe UNT PD is the equivalent of the Rangers?

On traffic stops and disturbance calls, yes. On investigating any major crime? No. 

Quite the difference that your all day pro UNT narrative can't get past.

Pro UNT Narrative? It was a statement of fact and that is all. 

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3 minutes ago, filmerj said:

Pro UNT Narrative? It was a statement of fact and that is all. 

That was directed at the AD mouthpiece 23.

Again, do you consider UNT PD on the same investigative level as the Texas Rangers?

2 hours ago, Rudy said:

I have to disagree with you there.  UNTPD is as equipped to handle a majority of their situations as most of your PD's.  IF they come across something they don't have the equipment, training, or experience to handle, they an bring in additional resources.  A majority of your law enforcement have specialized training in certain fields, IE human trafficking, prostitution, narcotics, accident reconstruction, auto theft, etc.  Various officers have different specialized training.  

First, training and experience doing are two very different things. Secondly, you basically agreed with me by saying they would "bring in additional resources." Those "resources" would be experienced investigators from other agencies. 

And if they are going to do that, just hand it over and get UNT's name off the investigation completely. That's what should happen, anyway.

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5 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

That was directed at the AD mouthpiece 23.

Again, do you consider UNT PD on the same investigative level as the Texas Rangers?

You know better than I do, but I'm pretty sure I've read that the reach of university police is much broader than most suspect due to that whole state agency thing.  How much of that goes into practice, I have no idea.  They're mighty fine at writing parking tickets.  That's all I really know. 

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3 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

You know better than I do, but I'm pretty sure I've read that the reach of university police is much broader than most suspect due to that whole state agency thing.  How much of that goes into practice, I have no idea.  They're mighty fine at writing parking tickets.  That's all I really know. 

They aren't geared for a major criminal investigation. It's just not what they do. Add on top of that having to answer to people who may have a major stake in the investigative findings and it makes for a very bad situation. Hand it over.

Here is something for the mouthpieces to consider (that's assuming they are capable of an independant thought). What happens if the law firm comes across a piece of information that the police do not have but need for the criminal investigation? And what if that piece of information also opens up the university to liability? Who makes the decision to let the PD know? The university does. And if that PD is UNT PD, you could potentially have a very very dirty situation inside UNT. 

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http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17963936/penn-state-fined-record-24-million-handling-jerry-sandusky-case

 

Read this and see what a great job Penn St PD did with Sandusky. Also see how they under-reported sexual assaults on campus. 

University PDs are FAR more susceptible to political pressure because non-police essentially run the department. Hand it off.

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15 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

That was directed at the AD mouthpiece 23.

Again, do you consider UNT PD on the same investigative level as the Texas Rangers?

First, training and experience doing are two very different things. Secondly, you basically agreed with me by saying they would "bring in additional resources." Those "resources" would be experienced investigators from other agencies. 

And if they are going to do that, just hand it over and get UNT's name off the investigation completely. That's what should happen, anyway.

Did you know UNT PD has a K9 Unit? They do; two "officers" in fact. They're used for things like narcotics and bomb detection. They have a Criminal Investigations Division that seems proficient enough to investigate two people who are allegedly involved in organized criminal activity as they have issued arrest warrants for two of them with one having already been arrested.

UNT's name is already all over this because at least one of the victims is a UNT student, this involves a UNT employee (Resident Assistant), where part of the crime took place on UNT's campus (soliciting the woman in her dorm room over the phone), and three of the alleged bad actors are UNT students.

4 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17963936/penn-state-fined-record-24-million-handling-jerry-sandusky-case

 

Read this and see what a great job Penn St PD did with Sandusky. Also see how they under-reported sexual assaults on campus. 

University PDs are FAR more susceptible to political pressure because non-police essentially run the department. Hand it off.

Except that didn't happen here. A sexual assault was reported and investigated. Arrest warrants were created as a result of the investigation. Two have been arrested. What more do you want?

Also, that independent investigation into the basketball program by an outside party was going to take place regardless of which police jurisdiction investigated the sexual assaults given who all three of the alleged bad actors were found to be.

You're creating something that isn't there because you have an agenda.

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On 5/3/2017 at 0:39 AM, TheTastyGreek said:

Could be. 

But... Given that this has been under investigation for over a month, and it was deemed serious enough for Smatresk to get a briefing a week ago, and we already had a legal firm on the job and a lengthy half stern, half vague statement prepared for when Brice got popped... I doubt this is all just a low level misunderstanding. 

It merits mentioning that Brice's only charge seems to be weed. But there's at least two other people directly connected to Benfordball still unnamed that have the heavier warrants waiting for them. 

Best case scenario, this is already almost certain to ring out way uglier than the Dodge drug testing debacle, and that made national news. This has drugs, prostitution, some sort of criminal conspiracy, sexual assault, three people connected to our athletics program (as of now) and an independent legal firm running a parallel investigation. 

It could go no bigger, no further, and no uglier than what's already out there, and it's still a disgrace that'll tarnish us for a good long while. 

The fact that we're seemingly trying to get ahead of whatever is actually going on with this situation makes me worried that this is going to get pretty damn messy. Probably not Baylor bad, and definitely not Penn State bad... But maybe Louisville bad? Who knows! It's all Green, and it's all Gonna Come Out Eventually. So, let it fly and hope that it's wide open enough not to block out our green light to greatness, or something. 

It'll all die out before you know it.

 

I mean nobody over here still thinks of Western as 'goat f*****s' right?  And that wasn't even athletics.  That incident was a group of AG Fratty McFrattersons.  But I still hear about it.  But I don't hear about it as often.  I don't think average Joe even remembers it but message board posters have long memories on any potential fuel for fire.  Sounds to me like your school has done everything right so far.  

 

These dang college kids.  If it ain't the marijauna then it's the sex.  Who'd think college age kids would fall under the spell of either of those?  Sex is what took down Ray Harper.  And no laws were broken.  Nobody went to jail.  But 3 players were expelled and pretty much forced a resignation by the head coach.  Louieville still hasn't faced down their hookers for high schoolers controversy.  I hate it for you guys.  I'll be following this just out of curiosity.  

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So using UNT90's line of reasoning, all County and State investigations should funnel up to federal agencies so there is no perceived improprieties.

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2 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

Did you know UNT PD has a K9 Unit? They do; two "officers" in fact. They're used for things like narcotics and bomb detection. They have a Criminal Investigations Division that seems proficient enough to investigate two people who are allegedly involved in organized criminal activity as they have issued arrest warrants for two of them with one having already been arrested.

UNT's name is already all over this because at least one of the victims is a UNT student, this involves a UNT employee (Resident Assistant), where part of the crime took place on UNT's campus (soliciting the woman in her dorm room over the phone), and three of the alleged bad actors are UNT students.

Except that didn't happen here. A sexual assault was reported and investigated. Arrest warrants were created as a result of the investigation. Two have been arrested. What more do you want?

Also, that independent investigation into the basketball program by an outside party was going to take place regardless of which police jurisdiction investigated the sexual assaults given who all three of the alleged bad actors were found to be.

You're creating something that isn't there because you have an agenda.

I'm the one with the agenda? Bahahahahaha. Did you call the AD first to clear that post? 

Its a conflict of interest. Period. Hand it off. 

Its great that they have all those things. How many prostitution or human trafficking cases have they done? This isn't what they do and isn't their expertise. 

You trust the administration (and always will, no matter how many times you are lied to and used). I don't. That is the crux of the matter.

22 minutes ago, GreenMachine said:

So using UNT90's line of reasoning, all County and State investigations should funnel up to federal agencies so there is no perceived improprieties.

Na, that's just you trying to pigeonhole me as usual. Get back to that circle.

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5 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

I'm the one with the agenda? Bahahahahaha. Did you call the AD first to clear that post? 

Its a conflict of interest. Period. Hand it off. 

Its great that they have all those things. How many prostitution or human trafficking cases have they done? This isn't what they do and isn't their expertise. 

You trust the administration (and always will, no matter how many times you are lied to and used). I don't. That is the crux of the matter.

One could argue that UNT PD is just as equipped to handle such cases as a rural PD like Bridgeport, Granbury, and Joshua ... just to name a few outskirt small towns around DFW who likely wouldn't see such crimes.

I certainly don't see where the administration is attempting to "sweep" this matter under the carpet. Is it a PR mess -- sure -- but they don't appear to be doing anything improper based on the transparency they attempting to convey. The admin would still have a hornet's nest to deal with regardless of whether it was UNT PD, Denton PD, Denton County SO, or the FBI doing the investigating of the alleged crimes.

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Just now, UNTFan23 said:

One could argue that UNT PD is just as equipped to handle such cases as a rural PD like Bridgeport, Granbury, and Joshua ... just to name a few outskirt small towns around DFW who likely wouldn't see such crimes.

I certainly don't see where the administration is attempting to "sweep" this matter under the carpet. Is it a PR mess -- sure -- but they don't appear to be doing anything improper based on the transparency they attempting to convey. The admin would still have a hornet's nest to deal with regardless of whether it was UNT PD, Denton PD, Denton County SO, or the FBI doing the investigating of the alleged crimes.

The bolded is exactly correct. You know who they call when they don't have the resources? The Rangers. That's why they are there. 

Neither you nor I know the scope of this thing. The scope may never be known without a proper investigation. They wouldn't have a hornets nest with UNT PD, because UNT PD answers directly to the administration and may do what they are told. 

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33 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

The scope may never be known without a proper investigation. They wouldn't have a hornets nest with UNT PD, because UNT PD answers directly to the administration and may do what they are told. 

That is a very reckless statement. The UNTPD in criminal matters reports directly to Denton County District Attorney. They are sworn police officers. To say that they will not conduct a proper investigation is a wild baseless accusation. 

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I've seen enough on here recently to believe there are a couple posters who will not end the negativity, even when things are on the rise in Denton.

It's disheartening, because I had mistakenly associated all the anger/bitterness with the state of the program and hoped it would go away.  It seems to be it is not associated with the AD, and will continue regardless of any successes.

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The Texas Rangers do no step in to investigate every case of pimps recruiting new prosititues. They investigate when there is some reason to believe the local police either don't have the resources or somehow messed up the initial investigation. Neither of those are true here. 

The Rangers don't step in because an individual with a self stated distrust of any statement by anyone in administration at North Texas thinks they should. The Rangers need an actual reason. 

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15 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Every serious crime that presents a publicity problem and a possible liability to UNT, yes. Do you seriously think UNT PD would work a murder that occurred on campus? No. They aren't equipped to do so.

I'm sure UNT has fine officers, but they don't deal with major crimes and I would bet no one at the PD has ever worked a human trafficking case or a prostitution case. 

Its not what a university PD does. 

Thank you UNT90, now back to Alex Jones in the INFOWAR Studios.

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