Jump to content

Recruiting Folderol & Whatnot


Recommended Posts

There are people fans who are all worried up about recruiting.  Specifically, that the recruiting isn't noticeably better that what the prior staff was bringing in...

...which was the same complaint about the prior staff...

...and, the prior staff...

...and, they told two friends...and, so on, and so on, and so on.

The truth is, we aren't on the maps of the vast majority of 3- and 4- and 5-star recruits.  We haven't won enough to garner interest from them.  So, we are getting what we have gotten for the past two+ decades.

And, let's be honest, for a moment.  What have we not tried?  We hired offensive coordinators (Simon, Dickey, Littrell), we've hired high school coaches (Dodge), we've hired experienced coaches (McCarney).  We occasionally win, but mostly do not. 

(We've also discovered along the way that "if you build it they will come!" is just in the movies and not a real thing.)

When we hired Seth Littrell, did anyone really know who we'd hired?  I mean, not UNT fans, but the average fan on the street.  However, I'd bet that 72 hours before he was hired here, most UNT fans didn't even know who Littrell was. 

So, how does a high school kid wrapped up in school, skirts, church, Xbox One, twitter, facebook, instagram, snapchat, and Pokemon Go! know who he is? 

I've also thought a lot about recruiting "pipelines."  How long can you really have a "pipeline?"  High school coaches move around as well as college coaches, and I mean head coaches and assistants.  They are at this school for a while, then that one.  Their tenures jumble with the college coaching changes.

Now, of course, if Nick Saban knocks at your door, you know how he is.  Probably Urban Meyer and Jim Harbaugh as well.  But, Littrell? 

I don't say this to demean Littrell at all.  What I mean to do is ask people to not freak out about recruiting.  We are getting what we normally get.  We've had coaches like Darrell Dickey, Dan McCarney...and, Seth Littrell...take us to bowl games just with "getting what we get."

As long as the coaches can coach, "getting what we get" is good enough.

 

  • Upvote 11
  • Downvote 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

I don't say this to demean Littrell at all.  What I mean to do is ask people to not freak out about recruiting.  We are getting what we normally get.  We've had coaches like Darrell Dickey, Dan McCarney...and, Seth Littrell...take us to bowl games just with "getting what we get."

Nope.  Darrell Dickey recruited at a much higher level than any other coach since we have returned to 1A/FBS.  12 DaMN State Top 100s, six in one class.   Now we're struggling to pick up Area Top 100s.

We've just completed our 22nd season back in 1A/FBS, and we've had a winning season exactly 4 times in that run.   Dickey had 3 of them.  

Remove Dickey out of that equation and we have had ONE winning season in THIRTEEN years.  If you're happy with that ratio then don't worry about the recruiting,  if you want to win a little more often, then we better start recruiting at least as well as Dickey did.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Cerebus said:

Nope.  Darrell Dickey recruited at a much higher level than any other coach since we have returned to 1A/FBS.  12 DaMN State Top 100s, six in one class.   Now we're struggling to pick up Area Top 100s.

We've just completed our 22nd season back in 1A/FBS, and we've had a winning season exactly 4 times in that run.   Dickey had 3 of them.  

Remove Dickey out of that equation and we have had ONE winning season in THIRTEEN years.  If you're happy with that ratio then don't worry about the recruiting,  if you want to win a little more often, then we better start recruiting at least as well as Dickey did.  

Senator, I knew Darrell Dickey.  Seth Littrell is no Darrell Dickey.

However, he doesn't have to be.  He's got better facilities, a better stadium, and more money in the assistant coach salary pool than Dickey.

I have always heart.png Darrell Dickey, and always will.  But, I don't think Littrell has to outrecruit him.  We came within a ball hair from winning six or seven games without a legitimate QB last season.  So, if can can coach up what he signs, we're good.  

  • Upvote 2
  • Downvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

There are people fans who are all worried up about recruiting.  Specifically, that the recruiting isn't noticeably better that what the prior staff was bringing in...

...which was the same complaint about the prior staff...

...and, the prior staff...

...and, they told two friends...and, so on, and so on, and so on.

The truth is, we aren't on the maps of the vast majority of 3- and 4- and 5-star recruits.  We haven't won enough to garner interest from them.  So, we are getting what we have gotten for the past two+ decades.

And, let's be honest, for a moment.  What have we not tried?  We hired offensive coordinators (Simon, Dickey, Littrell), we've hired high school coaches (Dodge), we've hired experienced coaches (McCarney).  We occasionally win, but mostly do not. 

(We've also discovered along the way that "if you build it they will come!" is just in the movies and not a real thing.)

When we hired Seth Littrell, did anyone really know who we'd hired?  I mean, not UNT fans, but the average fan on the street.  However, I'd bet that 72 hours before he was hired here, most UNT fans didn't even know who Littrell was. 

So, how does a high school kid wrapped up in school, skirts, church, Xbox One, twitter, facebook, instagram, snapchat, and Pokemon Go! know who he is? 

I've also thought a lot about recruiting "pipelines."  How long can you really have a "pipeline?"  High school coaches move around as well as college coaches, and I mean head coaches and assistants.  They are at this school for a while, then that one.  Their tenures jumble with the college coaching changes.

Now, of course, if Nick Saban knocks at your door, you know how he is.  Probably Urban Meyer and Jim Harbaugh as well.  But, Littrell? 

I don't say this to demean Littrell at all.  What I mean to do is ask people to not freak out about recruiting.  We are getting what we normally get.  We've had coaches like Darrell Dickey, Dan McCarney...and, Seth Littrell...take us to bowl games just with "getting what we get."

As long as the coaches can coach, "getting what we get" is good enough.

 

No it isn't. And hasn't been. Talent wins.

  • Upvote 6
  • Downvote 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Cerebus said:

Nope.  Darrell Dickey recruited at a much higher level than any other coach since we have returned to 1A/FBS.  12 DaMN State Top 100s, six in one class.   Now we're struggling to pick up Area Top 100s.

We've just completed our 22nd season back in 1A/FBS, and we've had a winning season exactly 4 times in that run.   Dickey had 3 of them.  

Remove Dickey out of that equation and we have had ONE winning season in THIRTEEN years.  If you're happy with that ratio then don't worry about the recruiting,  if you want to win a little more often, then we better start recruiting at least as well as Dickey did.  

This.

Expect more. Remember, TFLF is the same guy that is fine creating a lower classification and moving UNT football to that classification. 

Is it really any surprise that he is fine with the status quo?

  • Upvote 4
  • Downvote 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stop this non-sense.  If there was EVER a case that recruiting rankings matter, look no further than UNT.

Cerebus probably said it better, but we have mostly SUCKED for the last 12-13 years.  We've legitimately been in the running for the worst team in the country more than a handful of those years.  Two of those teams, 2015 and 2008, were possibly the worst FBS football teams to ever suit up.  During that span our recruiting has pretty regularly ranked near the bottom of our conference, our state, and nationally.  Getting the same level recruit as we have over that span means we can expect similar results.

 Everyone usually tries to prove that recruiting rankings matter by only looking at the more highly rated  individual recruits, or top ranked teams and charting their success.  I think it makes better sense to look at it from the bottom up, and where better is that demonstrated than here??  Get it through your head(s).  Recruiting is the life blood of college athletics.  Period.  

Edited by TIgreen01
  • Upvote 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is fairly accurate. I sometimes wonder if UTSA's lack of football program history has helped them with the recruiting success they are having right now. I know Frank Wilson has brought in some based on old LSU relationships and whatnot, but wonder if sometimes no history is better than a bad history. I think most kids around this area have only heard about us as not being good in football. They don't know or probably care about the Joe Greene era or especially DD era. Yet, we have one of the lowest recruiting budgets in CUSA and haven't had much movement outside of DFW and surrounding areas. 

You have to remember how many Texas teams we were competing with in recruiting during those DD days. And even then, we were beating teams in a newly formed Sun Belt with teams still trying to build back up to Division 1 level respectability. A look at our non-conference record shows we weren't dominating outside of those parameters. Not to knock DD, he did a good job for us obviously. 

All this is to say I'm a big advocate of trying to find "diamonds in the rough" outside of DFW to build a team that can help our recruiting here at home by winning. UTSA's recruiting has been scattered about the state and surrounding states and it's showing in their recruiting ranking dominance. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

 I know Frank Wilson has brought in some based on old LSU relationships and whatnot, but wonder if sometimes no history is better than a bad history.

Frank Wilson has recruited well everywhere he has gone.  Maybe he's just a good recruiter?  Coaches can be bad or good recruiters.  Mac was know as a meh recruiter at ISU, he was a meh recruiter at Florida, why would anyone expect him to be a great recruiter at North Texas?

You hire a good recruiter at North Texas and they will recruit well, you hire a bad recruiter and they won't.  To me, it's too early to judge whether or not SL and his staff are good or bad, but I am concerned.  

Whichever way you want to slice it, we have 3 *** ranked recruits, USM, ODU and WKU have 8, UTSA has 9, and MTSU has 10.  I don't know how we shouldn't be worried about that, at least a little.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Cerebus said:

Frank Wilson has recruited well everywhere he has gone.  Maybe he's just a good recruiter?  Coaches can be bad or good recruiters.  Mac was know as a meh recruiter at ISU, he was a meh recruiter at Florida, why would anyone expect him to be a great recruiter at North Texas?

You hire a good recruiter at North Texas and they will recruit well, you hire a bad recruiter and they won't.  To me, it's too early to judge whether or not SL and his staff are good or bad, but I am concerned.  

Whichever way you want to slice it, we have 3 *** ranked recruits, USM, ODU and WKU have 8, UTSA has 9, and MTSU has 10.  I don't know how we shouldn't be worried about that, at least a little.  

 

This is probably true and we might be giving SL the benefit of the doubt by saying that we have some perception issues to overcome. I had never heard about SL being known as a recruiter before he came here. Frank Wilson obviously had that reputation. We made our decision and have to see it out, but I think a lot of us are concerned thus far.

Then again we are also burnt by having a basketball coach known to be a recruiter and seeing how that's worked out, but I digress. 

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

Then again we are also burnt by having a basketball coach known to be a recruiter and seeing how that's worked out, but I digress. 

Having a coach that can do one or the other won't cut it.  If you want to see a coach who recruited lights out but couldn't use them then just go over the BB forum and ask about Vic Trilli.  I don't think any NT coach has ever recruited as well as he did, we did not win many games under him though.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Cerebus said:

Having a coach that can do one or the other won't cut it.  If you want to see a coach who recruited lights out but couldn't use them then just go over the BB forum and ask about Vic Trilli.  I don't think any NT coach has ever recruited as well as he did, we did not win many games under him though.

 

Well here's to hoping Wren Baker can find those unicorns that can do both. Seems to me the up-and-coming coaches know the G5 schools that can be a catapult to a higher level like Houston and we are left with guys we always have to take somewhat of a chance with. UTSA took a chance with Frank Wilson, too. He was never a sure bet to recruit well there, but sure enough he has. He's still not a sure bet to coach well on the field. Just the way it goes. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

We came within a ball hair from winning six or seven games without a legitimate QB last season.  So, if can can coach up what he signs, we're good.  

5-7 and needing an APR exception to get to a bowl game should not be good long term.

If we want to consistently be in that 8-10 win tier, we will need to get over the UTSA/WKU/ODU hump, and it probably starts with out-recruiting them.  Having said that, I'm excited to see what these men can do with a full year of the system under their belts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To me, the best here with Seth Littrell is that he follows the Johnny Jones plan--get quality FBS transfers from power schools that can play at our level, coach up kids with little or no ratings, and become a winner that eventually gains attention around the area and state that entices HS kids with talent to look at us. JJ did that and he got some solid kids into the program by the time he left for LSU.

Until we see something different, and it is now even harder because we have UTSA and Texas State to recruit against in football, unlike when DD was here and recruited some great talent for about two years, it will remain the reality that our reputation as a loser and being apathetic (or worse) when looking at athletics will continue to haunt us on the recruiting front.

 

  • Upvote 2
  • Downvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, FirefightnRick said:

I'm more worried about X's and O's.

And just as soon as I see us consistently shut the run game down and convert 3rd and an inch from under center I'll not have any more worries with this program.

 

Rick

Think that is more from the Willy and the Joe's. Talent wins in college football, schemes win in the NFL. Get more talent = more wins. I like what we did on the field with the lack of talent this year but if we don't bring in more talent expect similar results. That will not be acceptable. Hoping for a big NSD with some surprises. Sky isn't falling but I'm looking up more today than I was a month ago.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Cerebus said:

Having a coach that can do one or the other won't cut it.  If you want to see a coach who recruited lights out but couldn't use them then just go over the BB forum and ask about Vic Trilli.  I don't think any NT coach has ever recruited as well as he did, we did not win many games under him though.

 

We did finally get in CUSA just like Trilli said we would.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Green92 said:

SL is going to have to out coach the opponents for at least a few years before he'll have the luxury of out athleting anyone. 

If he doesn't recruit better, he will never get this luxury.

Edited by UNT90
  • Upvote 4
  • Downvote 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Please review our full Privacy Policy before using our site.