recruiting rankings

[PlummMeanGreen]

1 hour ago, BillySee58 said:

That's very rarely true, and far from automatic. They just don't ever get reevaluated or given a chance to improve their rating.

The only time a kid gets downgraded after they commit to us is if they have a high rating to where they're closer to a 4-star than a 2-star, and they "only" commit to us and don't pick up P5 offers. Then the recruiting services chicken out on their high rating of a kid. This happened with Cameron Johnson and Willy Ivery in recent years, but that's really about it.

I believe La Tech has a lower recruiting budget than us. We just haven't had coaches who excel in recruiting, compared to their peers. Littrell and this staff don't appear awful, but they haven't shown me anything to suggest they're the type of staff to compete for the top classes in CUSA. And that is very attainable here. Frank Wilson would be pulling a top two class in CUSA, by the composite rankings, if he was here. I have no doubt about that.

La Tech was the school I had in mind to raid their top assistant(s) several years ago.  Think I even may have told Harry that back in the day.  (And who is Frank Wilson)? 

IMHO, jury still out for the Littrell staff since this is their first full year to recruit, but Mason Fine is still one of the best QB recruits I've seen at UNT the last 40 plus years I've followed this. I know for some he doesn't pass the NFL test but neither did any of Darrell Royal's QB's of which none of his were ever drafted.

Edited January 17, 2017 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNTLifer]

10 hours ago, correcamino said:

That's pretty delusional. TDECU cost $130 million.

Regarding UNT's struggles recruiting, I just don't think the typical athlete can relate to UNT or Denton very well. It's full of hipsters that are proud of being weird and can be pretty stuck-up towards outsiders. If you're a star athlete, which all these recruits are in the HS ranks, that probably isn't your scene. I mean you have a new stadium, new young, energetic coaching staff, bowl game...at some point you have to start pointing the finger at UNT and Denton. Just my opinion.

Your opinion of Denton is pretty comical and thinking that is a big deal to recruits is pretty funny.  Sure, they want fun places to hang out during their college years, but a number of universities would never get a good recruit if they followed your line of thinking.  Coming from a resident of San Antonio makes this even better.

[UNT90]

10 hours ago, correcamino said:

That's pretty delusional. TDECU cost $130 million.

Regarding UNT's struggles recruiting, I just don't think the typical athlete can relate to UNT or Denton very well. It's full of hipsters that are proud of being weird and can be pretty stuck-up towards outsiders. If you're a star athlete, which all these recruits are in the HS ranks, that probably isn't your scene. I mean you have a new stadium, new young, energetic coaching staff, bowl game...at some point you have to start pointing the finger at UNT and Denton. Just my opinion.

It has zero to do with the City of Denton. That's just stupid. The problem is UNT's consistent failure to hire a coach and staff that can both coach and recruit. 

Dodge was a great recruiter and a terrible coach. 

DMac was a bad recruiter and a bad coach/

Dckey was probably the best recruiter UNT has seen, but was an average to below average game day coach. He also had no budget to work with.

Littrell can coach. Winning 5 games with 68 scholarship players proves that. The big question is can he recruit. Unless this class improved dramatically in the next 3 weeks, signs will point to no. 

[TheReal_jayD]

2 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

It has zero to do with the City of Denton. That's just stupid. The problem is UNT's consistent failure to hire a coach and staff that can both coach and recruit. 

Dodge was a great recruiter and a terrible coach. 

DMac was a bad recruiter and a bad coach/

Dckey was probably the best recruiter UNT has seen, but was an average to below average game day coach. He also had no budget to work with.

Littrell can coach. Winning 5 games with 68 scholarship players proves that. The big question is can he recruit. Unless this class improved dramatically in the next 3 weeks, signs will point to no. 

On paper? Let's wait and see what they can do on the field. Tell me the biggest bust of Littrell Tenure so far. We don't know because he has only had half of a recruiting class.. Now he is realistically working with 18 schollys this class. Lets put the pitch forks away for just a second and give this time. Not one of us was jumping up and down when Tyler Wilson committed last year. With his 0 stars and 0 offers. Now he looks like potential all conference in the future. Mason Fine, Hambone, Dee Baulkman etc. None of these guys were three stars and we didnt beat any P5 schools out for them. But they contributed to our 5 wins. I'm not saying Mason Fine is the next Drew Brees. I don't think no one is arguing that. But you don't have to have Drew Brees at C-USA to be successful. I'm just saying let's quit comparing the past and just be paitent and let this work out. Littrell and co. are trying to build something. Not just a patch job and move on. And they aren't just collecting pay checks (MAC). They are following the same blue print that led Fuente to success @ Memphis. Get ball players and get wins. Then the recruiting will play its self out. Lets hold off on saying they can't recruit until we start seeing them get players that can't play. 

[wardly]

One of the things I have a real problem with on this forum is some posters who refuse to respect the opinion of others.UNT90"s response to a recent post stating "that's just stupid" is a perfect example.Lets just agree to disagree. It works well with me and my ex -wife.

[MeanGreenHoops]

How much does the less scholarships to offer this year play into the rankings of a class? I'm also interested to see @BillySee58 's offer / class grade for the class after it's finalized.

[UNT90]

5 minutes ago, wardly said:

One of the things I have a real problem with on this forum is some posters who refuse to respect the opinion of others.UNT90"s response to a recent post stating "that's just stupid" is a perfect example.Lets just agree to disagree. It works well with me and my ex -wife.

It was a troll post by a UTSA fan.

And it was really stupid.

Funny how there is no outrage when people call me names, isn't it?

Edited January 17, 2017 by UNT90

[Aldo]

1 minute ago, UNT90 said:

It was a troll post by a UTSA fan.

And it was really stupid.

Seconded. 

Motion carried?

[Shark84]

We should always be in the top five or six in Conference USA in recruiting in both football and basketball. We do a pretty good job of picking up kids that didn't get offers from D1 schools but you can't build a program on those kids. You still need to be able to beat out La Tech, Rice, UTEP, UTSA, and yes even SMU for some of the local kids. We have also never spent much time recruiting out of state. I know we have tons of talent in Texas but a lot of those kids don't want to come to UNT. A kid from outside of Texas doesn't have a negative impression of us and that is where we can sell our facilities, DFW, weather, GOOD LOOKING GIRLS!, ect. That takes money and personnel. I'm not saying forget about Texas kids but use some resources to find talent outside the state. Like it or not, we are fighting our image as a program with HS kids. Perception and image means a lot to young recruits. 

[Graddean]

I think what drives some of the ratings debate is some of the inconsistencies.  For example, Brammer had five offers, three from DI with no stars or rating by 247.  On the other hand, Derique Ryan is rated a three star with one DII offer.  Also on our list, Johnson is rated .7998 and is given three stars.  Davis is rated .7924 and is given two stares.  I doubt the fineness of this discrimination.  That is why I said earlier there are three stars not significantly better than some two stars if the ratings are accurate;however, I am willing to accept a three star with a high rating is probably better than a two star with a high rating.  I think here the difference in ratings would be significant.  Sometimes the star system makes a student with an 81% average and a B- look significantly better than the student with  79% average and a C+.  

[wardly]

One of the things I have a real problem with on this forum is some posters who refuse to respect the opinion of others.UNT90"s response to a recent post stating "that's just stupid" is a perfect example.Lets just agree to disagree. It works well with me and my ex -wife.                                                                                                                                                                     I am not outraged by your comments, just asking that we all try and respect each others opinion no matter what we may really think about it. The three hardest words I had to learn in life were "maybe you're right". Keep posting , as you always bring something to the table.

[UNTLifer]

On 1/17/2017 at 10:33 AM, Graddean said:

I think what drives some of the ratings debate is some of the inconsistencies.  For example, Brammer had five offers, three from DI with no stars or rating by 247.  On the other hand, Derique Ryan is rated a three star with one DII offer.  Also on our list, Johnson is rated .7998 and is given three stars.  Davis is rated .7924 and is given two stares.  I doubt the fineness of this discrimination.  That is why I said earlier there are three stars not significantly better than some two stars if the ratings are accurate;however, I am willing to accept a three star with a high rating is probably better than a two star with a high rating.  I think here the difference in ratings would be significant.  Sometimes the star system makes a student with an 81% average and a B- look significantly better than the student with  79% average and a C+.  

Exactly.  I was curious about this a number of years ago with Rivals.  I emailed them when a recruit, don't remember who now, that was rated three stars and recruited by a number of schools committed and signed with us.  Rivals dropped his rating from a 3 to a 2 star.  The response I got was typical political B.S. and proved the fallacy of their rating system.  DD road the coattails of one strong class to his conference titles and bowl games.  Outside of that, our star players have been overlooked/underrated players like Cobbs, Quinn, Brewster, Fitzgerald, Galbreath, Dunbar, etc...  I have always preferred to rate our class based on their performance 4 or 5 years down the road, which is something Dave Campbell's Texas Football does every year.  

Now, I would hope that SL and staff are here and successful enough to get us away from this to where we start landing consensus star players from the get go.

[FirefightnRick]

Just another example....

 

http://m.kltv.com/kltv/db_330568/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=nNfsgliu

 

 

 

Rick

 

 

 

[Army of Dad]

4 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Just another example....

 

http://m.kltv.com/kltv/db_330568/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=nNfsgliu

Rick

Of what, a player that couldn't beat out other very highly rated recruits?

Why most programs take a HS QB every class while knowing that oftentimes around half of them won't become starters?

Edited January 19, 2017 by Army of Dad

[FirefightnRick]

2 hours ago, Army of Dad said:

Of what, 

Another example of how goofy it is to get all worked up about the recruiting season, that's what.

 

Rick

[UNT254]

2 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Another example of how goofy it is to get all worked up about the recruiting season, that's what.

It's the offseason, what else do we have to get worker up about?

[FirefightnRick]

5 hours ago, UNT254 said:

It's the offseason, what else do we have to get worker up about?

Well usually we have basketball, but....

 

 

Rick

[RBP79]

man.....tuff audience.......I say give SL and staff more time before we get out the shovels and rope......................

[GrandGreen]

1 hour ago, RBP79 said:

man.....tuff audience.......I say give SL and staff more time before we get out the shovels and rope......................

I don't think anyone wants anything but success for Littrell, and most are very encouraged after his first season.

However, to me it is semi-refreshing to have so many people concerned with recruiting.   Not too many years ago, I used to post concerns about recruiting; only to be met with almost universal disdain.   Minus stars and ending accounts of how recruiting ratings mean nothing and the bountiful examples of low rated recruits who turned out great and high rated who did not.   The same when I questioned RV's performance.  

There are a few posters that are going continue to search for negatives no matter what direction the program is going.   Just as there are always those bend the opposite way giving the athletic department the benefit of every doubt.  

I think there are a lot more in the middle now that are going to question the process.  That are more than willing to give praise were they think it is earned and question things that are not looking good, based on a logical view of NT versus their peer competition.    

 

 

[correcamino]

On 1/17/2017 at 0:16 AM, PlummMeanGreen said:

UNT's struggles?  Oh, like a school that has no D1 venues on its campus but rather plenty of commuters who need UBER to get to your games is CUSA's new standard bearer?  I think not.  

Did you see all those people wearing green at the HOD Bowl game on that  ESPN televised game a few weeks ago?  Pretty dismal situation you say?  (For you I'm sure it was disheartening--but more amazing is how only "2 years earlier" there were even more fans in the Cotton Bowl wearing green in a Mean Green bowl win).   

 

Your apathetic alumni has shown that it comes out for bowl game in Dallas. Unfortunately, they've also shown that they won't do the same for regular season games in Denton. Regardless, not sure what any of that has to do with UNT's recruiting struggles. 

 

On 1/17/2017 at 8:22 AM, UNTLifer said:

Your opinion of Denton is pretty comical and thinking that is a big deal to recruits is pretty funny.  Sure, they want fun places to hang out during their college years, but a number of universities would never get a good recruit if they followed your line of thinking.  Coming from a resident of San Antonio makes this even better.

I'm talking about the general scene of Denton. Personally, I've only been there once and it was really just for a UTSA/UNT game but the general vibe I get from the place is that it likes to be out there. I've seen the "Keep Denton Beard" slogan. I really don't think kids who were star athletes in HS click with that scene. Again, just my opinion.

 

On 1/17/2017 at 8:49 AM, UNT90 said:

It has zero to do with the City of Denton. That's just stupid. The problem is UNT's consistent failure to hire a coach and staff that can both coach and recruit. 

Dodge was a great recruiter and a terrible coach. 

DMac was a bad recruiter and a bad coach/

Dckey was probably the best recruiter UNT has seen, but was an average to below average game day coach. He also had no budget to work with.

Littrell can coach. Winning 5 games with 68 scholarship players proves that. The big question is can he recruit. Unless this class improved dramatically in the next 3 weeks, signs will point to no. 

Littrell is young and energetic. On paper, he should be a great recruiter that kids can relate to. Not even trolling, I honestly think he is at a disadvantage because of the scene/vibe of UNT/Denton. I think his recruiting would be considerably better if he was at UTSA or Texas State. I'm not even trying to crap on Denton...if you're an artsy or music kind of person you probably love it there. I just don't think that athletes are typically artsy or music kind of people. 

[GrandGreen]

8 hours ago, correcamino said:

Your apathetic alumni has shown that it comes out for bowl game in Dallas. Unfortunately, they've also shown that they won't do the same for regular season games in Denton. Regardless, not sure what any of that has to do with UNT's recruiting struggles. 

I went to the NT game in SA, not exactly a SRO crowd.  Actually less than the average NT game.  The wild enthusiasm for UTSA football is gone. I hope it is regained but it is not near as easy as it must have seemed a few years ago.  

I'm talking about the general scene of Denton. Personally, I've only been there once and it was really just for a UTSA/UNT game but the general vibe I get from the place is that it likes to be out there. I've seen the "Keep Denton Beard" slogan. I really don't think kids who were star athletes in HS click with that scene. Again, just my opinion.

Quite a statement to make on one partial day experience.   I have spend a lot of time in SA and I would not make any comments  on the basis of a slogan and  a vibe.   I actually like SA, but Denton is a great place to be.  Denton didn't get all the great press they have recently for nothing.  30,000 coeds, great music scene, good academics, small town atmosphere in a huge metro area, much better facilities than UTSA within walking distance: your right, star athletes would not be interested in any of that.   

Littrell is young and energetic. On paper, he should be a great recruiter that kids can relate to. Not even trolling, I honestly think he is at a disadvantage because of the scene/vibe of UNT/Denton. I think his recruiting would be considerably better if he was at UTSA or Texas State. I'm not even trying to crap on Denton...if you're an artsy or music kind of person you probably love it there. I just don't think that athletes are typically artsy or music kind of people. 

It is amazing that you know so much about NT and Denton.   It was a completely different when I went to school at NT.  However, I go there frequently now and not just to games.   I guess you are aware how relatively few students and residents of Denton are in the artsy and music crowd.  Those people in general enhance NT and Denton, not the other way around. 

I do think you ought to be a travel writer because of your uncanny ability to size up an area with so little effort.   

I

Edited January 20, 2017 by GrandGreen

[UNT90]

9 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Well usually we have basketball, but....

 

 

Rick

We haven't had basketball for 5 years.

[UNT90]

2 hours ago, correcamino said:

Your apathetic alumni has shown that it comes out for bowl game in Dallas. Unfortunately, they've also shown that they won't do the same for regular season games in Denton. Regardless, not sure what any of that has to do with UNT's recruiting struggles. 

 

I'm talking about the general scene of Denton. Personally, I've only been there once and it was really just for a UTSA/UNT game but the general vibe I get from the place is that it likes to be out there. I've seen the "Keep Denton Beard" slogan. I really don't think kids who were star athletes in HS click with that scene. Again, just my opinion.

 

Littrell is young and energetic. On paper, he should be a great recruiter that kids can relate to. Not even trolling, I honestly think he is at a disadvantage because of the scene/vibe of UNT/Denton. I think his recruiting would be considerably better if he was at UTSA or Texas State. I'm not even trying to crap on Denton...if you're an artsy or music kind of person you probably love it there. I just don't think that athletes are typically artsy or music kind of people. 

SA is a Craphole of a town. UTSA is a Craphole of a campus. Your team plays in a Craphole of a stadium. If a coach can recruit to that Craphole of a situation, a coach should be able to slay it at UNT.

Im not artsy. I could give a crap about jazz or the UNT music scene. I went to UNT when Denton was MUCH smaller and had a grand ole time.

What you are showing is your own ignorance. Denton has 113,000 residents inside the city limits and the county had a population of 662,614 in the 2010 census.  Are they all artsy fartsy types? Are you really that prejudiced? 

Maybe you like living in a town where the biggest attraction is a s-hole of a creek running through downtown that smells like human excrement half the year. Maybe you think THAT is what draws recruits. It doesn't.

What draws recruits is hard work, relationships, and salesmanship. It looks like you lucked into a coach that is really good at those things. If he can coach at all and keeps recruiting like he has, your Craphole of a school will win a conference championship long before UNT.

In any business or organization, the biggest thing that matters are the people in that organization. By a mile. UNT has had some crappy people in positions of power for a very long time that had an extremely adverse effect in this program. Overcoming the perceptions these people have left in their wake is way more of a factor than the City of Denton. 

Now, go build a football stadium or a weight room.

 

Edited January 20, 2017 by UNT90

[outoftown]

43 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

SA is a Craphole of a town. UTSA is a Craphole of a campus. Your team plays in a Craphole of a stadium. If a coach can recruit to that Craphole of a situation, a coach should be able to slay it at UNT.

Im not artsy. I could give a crap about jazz or the UNT music scene. I went to UNT when Denton was MUCH smaller and had a grand ole time.

What you are showing is your own ignorance. Denton has 113,000 residents inside the city limits and the county had a population of 662,614 in the 2010 census.  Are they all artsy fartsy types? Are you really that prejudiced? 

Maybe you like living in a town where the biggest attraction is a s-hole of a creek running through downtown that smells like human excrement half the year. Maybe you think THAT is what draws recruits. It doesn't.

What draws recruits is hard work, relationships, and salesmanship. It looks like you lucked into a coach that is really good at those things. If he can coach at all and keeps recruiting like he has, your Craphole of a school will win a conference championship long before UNT.

In any business or organization, the biggest thing that matters are the people in that organization. By a mile. UNT has had some crappy people in positions of power for a very long time that had an extremely adverse effect in this program. Overcoming the perceptions these people have left in their wake is way more of a factor than the City of Denton. 

Now, go build a football stadium or a weight room.

 

I get the overall point. I agree with it. Denton is not the problem and not quite like the previous poster described. It frankly beats most other DI college locations in Texas (El Paso, San Antonio, Lubbock etc). But I do not get the need for the agressiveness including all the bodily waste related imagery.

Edited January 20, 2017 by outoftown

[UNT90]

38 minutes ago, outoftown said:

I get the overall point. I agree with it. Denton is not the problem and not quite like the previous poster described. It frankly beats most other DI college locations in Texas (El Paso, San Antonio, Lubbock etc). But I do not get the need for the agressiveness including all the bodily waste related imagery.

One good stereotype deservers another.