MGN Film Room: HOD Bowl Triple Option

[aztecskin]

http://meangreennation.com/north-texas-heart-of-dallas-bowl-army-triple-option/

We got scorched for 480 yards and here are some representative plays. 

[All About UNT]

solid read buddy.

[GMG24]

They picked on Gray all day long. 

[meangreendork]

I felt like the playcalling was solid but the execution was flawed all game. Aside from a few plays, guys were more or less in the right place, but a minor adjustment on Army's part would gain that crucial yard or two. Which, kudos to Army on that account. They might have a good run next year, though I do wonder what happens once a team fully seals their run game down, considering that Army has less of a passing game than we did even in the Dickey years.

[FirefightnRick]

Just imagine if Army had our size and speed to run the same offense?

 

Rick

[aztecskin]

13 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Just imagine if Army had our size and speed to run the same offense?

 

Rick

They'd be Navy? 

[aztecskin]

1 hour ago, All About UNT said:

solid read buddy.

thanks

[LongJim]

I always get a kick out of folks that say a power running team can't score a lot of points, or come back quickly, or isn't exciting, or whatever excuse is handy at the moment.  It's nonsense.

Great write up and insight.

When I played in HS, we faced lots of option teams.  Some ran the wishbone, and we also faced teams (we were one also) who ran a variation of the Houston Veer.

The formula was always the same against the option:  LB's scrape and fill and tackle the dive back.  DE tackles the QB and forces the pitch/forces QB inside.  CB/S takes out the pitch man.  You want the QB to pitch if possible to encourage turnovers.  The headaches come when folks forget or hesitate in their assignment, or take on someone else's assignment.

Edited December 29, 2016 by LongJim

[aztecskin]

35 minutes ago, LongJim said:

I always get a kick out of folks that say a power running team can't score a lot of points, or come back quickly, or isn't exciting, or whatever excuse is handy at the moment.  It's nonsense. (1)

Great write up and insight.

When I played in HS, we faced lots of option teams.  Some ran the wishbone, and we also faced teams (we were one also) who ran a variation of the Houston Veer.

The formula was always the same against the option: (2)  LB's scrape and fill and tackle the dive back.  DE tackles the QB and forces the pitch/forces QB inside.  CB/S takes out the pitch man.  You want the QB to pitch if possible to encourage turnovers.  The headaches come when folks forget or hesitate in their assignment, or take on someone else's assignment.

(1) I agree. When a team is running whatever offense they run perfectly, it is so fun. Mid-90s Nebraska, Chip Kelly's Oregon, a couple of Paul Johnson's teams, Wisconsin every few years have all been great to watch. I feel the same about those as the Air Raid squads. The extremeness of it is fun.

(2) From what I have read about defending the option at the higher levels, you cannot play assignment football anymore. Apparently with all the technology and scouting available at the HS level, you cannot even do that as reliably anymore. The great option coaches will vary the blocking schemes, the option man (instead of the DE, they'll go with the DT etc), and the angles. I think hitting the QB every time is probably the soundest strategy. Everything stems from that guy, so if he is bruised a bit, that changes the game. 

[LongJim]

18 minutes ago, aztecskin said:

(2) From what I have read about defending the option at the higher levels, you cannot play assignment football anymore. Apparently with all the technology and scouting available at the HS level, you cannot even do that as reliably anymore. The great option coaches will vary the blocking schemes, the option man (instead of the DE, they'll go with the DT etc), and the angles. I think hitting the QB every time is probably the soundest strategy. Everything stems from that guy, so if he is bruised a bit, that changes the game. 

Interesting.  I'm sure there are a lot of wrinkles thrown in now that help complicate things for the defenses trying to stop the option.  I'm in 100% agreement with the bolded part above.  Make the QB uncomfortable and force him into mistakes/shellshock.

[UNTLifer]

The outside runs they broke typically were due to our over pursuit/bad angles on the play and getting out of position.  That is what occurred on one of their first half long runs, I think the one where Jenkins was held, and also occurred on the OT TD.  It is tough to defend and takes, as we all know, great discipline.

[meangreendork]

1 hour ago, LongJim said:

Interesting.  I'm sure there are a lot of wrinkles thrown in now that help complicate things for the defenses trying to stop the option.  I'm in 100% agreement with the bolded part above.  Make the QB uncomfortable and force him into mistakes/shellshock.

One of the things that worked at the first game was that our D basically was told "if they look like a ball carrier, hit them. Make them think they don't want the ball next play." Thing about the bowl game was that the up-front blocking kept a lot of that from happening. The penetration wasn't as good this time around and you gotta give Army a lot of credit for unpredictable blocking assignments that come out of just one formation for a whole game.

1 hour ago, LongJim said:

Interesting.  I'm sure there are a lot of wrinkles thrown in now that help complicate things for the defenses trying to stop the option.  I'm in 100% agreement with the bolded part above.  Make the QB uncomfortable and force him into mistakes/shellshock.

It's what happened during the regular season game. Monken learned 3 things about playing us that game:

1.) Don't pass the ball over our D because they'll punish the receivers and worse yet, cause turnovers they'll score on.
2.) Even with the triple-option sleight of hand just-at-the-snap, if the blocking isn't perfect, our D will get in and behind and stop plays and cause turnovers.
3.) Don't make Bradshaw run too much. His ability to read before the snap for passes and runs gets messed with if he's been pummeled all game.

So he had his staff and players aim for a mistake free game, which they played. They went from "we locked the gun on auto, aimed it at our foot and forgot how to take our finger off the trigger" to perfect execution.
 

Edited December 29, 2016 by meangreendork

[FirefightnRick]

14 hours ago, aztecskin said:

They'd be Navy? 

More along the lines of Georgia Tech from 2014.

Army doesn't get the biggest and fastest.  Put the level of players say K State, Louisville, Miami or even La Tech or WKY had this year and they would be unstoppable with Army and Navy's system.

 

Rick

Edited December 29, 2016 by FirefightnRick

[UNT Mean Green]

1 hour ago, FirefightnRick said:

More along the lines of Georgia Tech from 2014.

Army doesn't get the biggest and fastest.  Put the level of players say K State, Louisville, Miami or even La Tech or WKY had this year and they would be unstoppable with Army and Navy's system.

 

Rick

Good point, it'd be scary. Army is finally doing what Air Force and Navy have done for years, and it is paying obvious dividends.

Question though: Kansas State has similar level of talent to Louisville and Miami?

[BeatNavy]

20 hours ago, aztecskin said:

http://meangreennation.com/north-texas-heart-of-dallas-bowl-army-triple-option/

We got scorched for 480 yards and here are some representative plays. 

Good read.  I'm going to share this on the Army rivals board. 

[aztecskin]

12 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

The outside runs they broke typically were due to our over pursuit/bad angles on the play and getting out of position.  That is what occurred on one of their first half long runs, I think the one where Jenkins was held, and also occurred on the OT TD.  It is tough to defend and takes, as we all know, great discipline.

Yeah that was the point i was getting at. The 70-yard run happened because McClain tried to fly in and make a play instead of filling his lane. To his credit, that is within his abilities. He should have trusted his teammates, tho. 

 

if you watch the 4th down stop before NT drive for the tying FG, you can see how good McClain is. He covers the ground easily. The same distance James Gray struggled with, KiShawn eats up like nothing. It's the difference between a 6 yard gain and a yard loss. That was what i was getting at re: the athleticism v discipline thing. 

 

Often the the lack of athleticism makes you cheat. You can't go step for step so you give or take a little ground to get a head start. Or you guess. 

 

EDIT: Updated the post with the example I mention here. 

Edited December 30, 2016 by aztecskin