MGB: Recruiting state of the union -- it's too early to panic

[BTG_Fan1]

7 hours ago, Withers940 said:

Do you think having Wren Baker hit the recruiting trail would help? FIU AD is joining Butch Davis

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/college/conference-usa/florida-international-university/article119544813.html

I think Baker would def. be down to do this, and would love to see him do it... As a Vice-President of UNT and AD, it could impact the parents the most I think.

[Monkeypox]

[UTSA Fan]

17 hours ago, MeanGreenTeeth said:

UTSA's coach must be the best recruiter in the world.  Between not having a stadium, no college atmosphere, and the chubbiest co-eds on the planet, it has to be hell to recruit quality players.

 I  think the point is, the aforementioned items carry little weight with recruits. I think fans and expecially alumni look at those things, but few others seriously considers those factors in recruiting.

Edited December 13, 2016 by UTSA Fan

[Army of Dad]

3 minutes ago, UTSA Fan said:

 I  think the point is, the aforementioned items carry little weight with recruits. I think fans and expecially alumni look at those things, but few others seriously considers those factors in recruiting.

You don't think the status of the co-eds matters to recruits? 

[UTSA Fan]

Just now, Army of Dad said:

You don't think the status of the co-eds matters to recruits? 

No. They think they're going to pull hot chick's no matter where they go. They're  used to being the big man on campus and get whomever they want. Target rich environments are only beneficial to second tier dudes.

[the green rokemi]

Well thank goodness for that article, totally made me put down the gun, pull my head out of the noose, and get off the roof. Goosfrabah ladies and gentlemen

[Withers940]

2 hours ago, UTSA Fan said:

No. They think they're going to pull hot chick's no matter where they go. They're  used to being the big man on campus and get whomever they want. Target rich environments are only beneficial to second tier dudes.

I beg the differ here. The Co-eds are a big draw. No one wants to go to a school full of livestock, they want eye candy and a chance at a ladies hand.

[MeanGreenTeeth]

5 minutes ago, Withers940 said:

 they want eye candy and a chance at a ladies hand.

just their hand?

[Withers940]

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTeeth said:

just their hand?

Haha, among other things

[Ben Gooding]

2 hours ago, UTSA Fan said:

No. They think they're going to pull hot chick's no matter where they go. They're  used to being the big man on campus and get whomever they want. Target rich environments are only beneficial to second tier dudes.

Haha, no. Not at a meddling G5. 

That applies to actual stars that roam campuses. Like Mayfield at OU, Lamar at Louisville or McCaffery at Standford. 

[Cr1028]

January 5, 2016 - Bryce English

We'll be alright.

[UNT90]

Don't know what two recruits (one with no other offers) from last year have to do with the conversation of this year's class, but ok.

[Withers940]

6 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Don't know what two recruits (one with no other offers) from last year have to do with the conversation of this year's class, but ok.

On the tweet it shows the date. Both were offered in January and ended up here

[Army of Dad]

1 minute ago, Withers940 said:

On the tweet it shows the date. Both were offered in January and ended up here

Ok, that's still just two guys, including one that had no other FBS offer. I'm glad they are here, but getting Fine when he didn't have any other FBS offers isn't exactly winning battles for recruits.

Plus, the fact the staff was on a short timeframe after getting hired would lead to some late offers/commits by necessity.

[Withers940]

Just now, Army of Dad said:

Ok, that's still just two guys, including one that had no other FBS offer. I'm glad they are here, but getting Fine when he didn't have any other FBS offers isn't exactly winning battles for recruits.

Plus, the fact the staff was on a short timeframe after getting hired would lead to some late offers/commits by necessity.

Oh, I dont even know the argument. I was just pointing out what those were referencing. Hambone did have an offer list. TX STATE and Louisiana LA LA

[Cr1028]

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

Don't know what two recruits (one with no other offers) from last year have to do with the conversation of this year's class, but ok.

The point was, signing day is not yet here. The rankings today are not the rankings in February. We got 2 freshman all-conference members in January last year. No need to bring out the tar or feathers just yet. Also, the precious recruiting rankings had Augie Dibiase rated above Mason Fine and it turns out Fine was pretty good. Ladarius Hamilton was ranked very low also and he turned out to be a good player too. The recruiting rankings didn't account for Bryce English or Demonte Hood either. I'm always leary of the rankings because people like Geoff Ketchum decide that if a 3-star kid gets an offer from Texas, he really should be a 4-star kid. If Texas rescinds that offer and he signs with UNT, well, turns out, I think he belongs at 3-stars after all. 

Isadore and Pearson look to be really good competition for Mason Fine going into next year. These guys have a plan and are likely working it.

 

Also, what happens if you are a good recruiter and can't put together a good game plan on Saturday? I'll let you two think it over.

Our current DC has an answer though.

Quote

“People talk about hiring great recruiters; I think that’s an absolute joke,” he said. “If you’re labeled that, 99 percent of the time that means you can’t coach a lick. That’s a fact. There are very few exceptions. Ed Orgeron is a fantastic recruiter and he’s probably the best defensive line coach of them all. The guy is big-time. It’s great to recruit 5-stars, but then they come in and play like 2-stars. It’s too bad that’s how this profession is, but that’s part of the deal now.

“It’s not about recruiting, it’s about evaluating. That’s one of the things I learned from Ed Orgeron. It doesn’t matter if he’s a 2-star or a 5-star, it’s how you evaluate it and what you think you can do with him. That’s what I learned from him. Again, you recruit them. But there’s only about five players in the country that are totally different than everybody else. Everybody else can fall into a similar category. At that point it’s about developing and teaching. It’s about evaluating and developing your talent. And that’s a fact.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Cr1028

[UNT90]

Pointing out the exceptions is always fun.

Let me ask the board this question. Do you think Fine was Littrell's first choice at QB? His second? 

Fine was a late add because we had lost every other recruiting battle at QB. This isn't thing against Fine, it's just a fact. 

Losing every battle and then having to settle for a recruit with no other offers was Fine (he he) last year. It isn't this year. Expectations are different, or at least they should be.

We are UNT, after all.

14 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

The point was, signing day is not yet here. The rankings today are not the rankings in February. We got 2 freshman all-conference members in January last year. No need to bring out the tar or feathers just yet. Also, the precious recruiting rankings had Augie Dibiase rated above Mason Fine and it turns out Fine was pretty good. Ladarius Hamilton was ranked very low also and he turned out to be a good player too. The recruiting rankings didn't account for Bryce English or Demonte Hood either. I'm always leary of the rankings because people like Geoff Ketchum decide that if a 3-star kid gets an offer from Texas, he really should be a 4-star kid. If Texas rescinds that offer and he signs with UNT, well, turns out, I think he belongs at 3-stars after all. 

Isadore and Pearson look to be really good competition for Mason Fine going into next year. These guys have a plan and are likely working it.

 

Also, what happens if you are a good recruiter and can't put together a good game plan on Saturday? I'll let you two think it over.

Our current DC has an answer though.

 

No doubt we wait until Feb 1 to judge, but by comparing this year's class to last year's, you are already calling it a failure.

Last year's class was understandably bad. This year's better not be, or else it will be a terrible sign for things to come.

Also, Fine got that award by default. Because UNT's QB situation was that bad. The jury is still way out on what he will or won't be at UNT. 

Again, expecting all your recruits to be the exceptions to the rule isn't a very good recruiting plan. I'm glad Hamilton turned into a player (again assuming other freshmen in CUSA actually started at his position), but that isn't the rule.

Edited December 13, 2016 by UNT90

[Monkeypox]

And with those two additions, what was our final recruiting ranking in CUSA last year? Is that where we want to be this year?

[Withers940]

8 minutes ago, Monkeypox said:

And with those two additions, what was our final recruiting ranking in CUSA last year? Is that where we want to be this year?

I believe we were bottom tier but Im not 100% sure. The answer to your question is no in my personal opinion. I want to be the upper tier of this conference and i want this team to start breaking the Century mark in recruiting ranking.

[Cr1028]

2 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Pointing out the exceptions is always fun.

Let me ask the board this question. Do you think Fine was Littrell's first choice at QB? His second? 

Fine was a late add because we had lost every other recruiting battle at QB. This isn't thing against Fine, it's just a fact. 

Losing every battle and then having to settle for a recruit with no other offers was Fine (he he) last year. It isn't this year. Expectations are different, or at least they should be.

We are UNT, after all.

Pointing out the exceptions is always fun.

Let me ask the board this question. Do you think Fine was Littrell's first choice at QB? His second? 

Fine was a late add because we had lost every other recruiting battle at QB. This isn't thing against Fine, it's just a fact. 

Losing every battle and then having to settle for a recruit with no other offers was Fine (he he) last year. It isn't this year. Expectations are different, or at least they should be.

We are UNT, after all.

Losing Starkel to A&M and Byrns to Okie lite isn't unexpected but they still gave the effort to try and get those guys.

Isadore(ranked in one ranking as the #7 juco qb) and Pearson look to be good additions.

So ultimately, what is the standard here? # of stars? offer lists? or will wins suffice? and despite what some of you say 5-7 is a STELLAR season after the trash we had last year. Will 5-7 be the expected ceiling next year? No, but writing this season off as anything but a success just shows your lack of patience and propensity to bellyache. Lucky for Darrell Dickey some of you weren't calling the shots in 2000 or we may never have had our bowl run.

[UNT90]

2 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Losing Starkel to A&M and Byrns to Okie lite isn't unexpected but they still gave the effort to try and get those guys.

Isadore(ranked in one ranking as the #7 juco qb) and Pearson look to be good additions.

And added way before January...

Pearson has one other FBS offer, from Wyoming.  Otherwise, he is kinda Mason Fine. At least with Pearson, we can hold out hope that other offers didn't come because he was a hard commit to UNT. 

 

[Cr1028]

44 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

No doubt we wait until Feb 1 to judge, but by comparing this year's class to last year's, you are already calling it a failure.

Last year's class was understandably bad. This year's better not be, or else it will be a terrible sign for things to come.

I wasn't comparing the classes. I was pointing out that you can still get good players late.

[Cr1028]

2 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

And added way before January...

Pearson has one other FBS offer, from Wyoming.  Otherwise, he is kinda Mason Fine. At least with Pearson, we can hold out hope that other offers didn't come because he was a hard commit to UNT. 

 

So if he gets an offer from OU, Arkansas, or Texas, then we did great because we had a quality player committed that ultimately chose P5 over us? Is the recruiting strategy to go see what commits each school has so they can have a respectable offer list?

Sam Ehlinger is a 4 star player and the #5 dual-threat qb in the '17 class. His offer list consists of UT, UH, SMU, and McNeese. Does that mean UT got a crap player or does it mean the other schools didn't waste an offer because he solidly committed to UT the July before his junior season and didn't entertain any other offers? Maybe some are hidden gems, maybe some commit and tell the other teams not to waste an offer. Either way, the only ranking that matters to me is this one.

[UNT90]

14 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

So if he gets an offer from OU, Arkansas, or Texas, then we did great because we had a quality player committed that ultimately chose P5 over us? Is the recruiting strategy to go see what commits each school has so they can have a respectable offer list?

Sam Ehlinger is a 4 star player and the #5 dual-threat qb in the '17 class. His offer list consists of UT, UH, SMU, and McNeese. Does that mean UT got a crap player or does it mean the other schools didn't waste an offer because he solidly committed to UT the July before his junior season and didn't entertain any other offers? Maybe some are hidden gems, maybe some commit and tell the other teams not to waste an offer. Either way, the only ranking that matters to me is this one.

I think if you are uncommitted in January and you only have 2 offers, that says a lot about what programs think/know about you, especially at QB. 

And simmer down. Cade Pearson isn't getting offered by UT. 

[Ben Gooding]

1 hour ago, Cr1028 said:

The point was, signing day is not yet here. The rankings today are not the rankings in February. We got 2 freshman all-conference members in January last year. No need to bring out the tar or feathers just yet. Also, the precious recruiting rankings had Augie Dibiase rated above Mason Fine and it turns out Fine was pretty good. Ladarius Hamilton was ranked very low also and he turned out to be a good player too. The recruiting rankings didn't account for Bryce English or Demonte Hood either. I'm always leary of the rankings because people like Geoff Ketchum decide that if a 3-star kid gets an offer from Texas, he really should be a 4-star kid. If Texas rescinds that offer and he signs with UNT, well, turns out, I think he belongs at 3-stars after all. 

Isadore and Pearson look to be really good competition for Mason Fine going into next year. These guys have a plan and are likely working it.

 

Also, what happens if you are a good recruiter and can't put together a good game plan on Saturday? I'll let you two think it over.

Our current DC has an answer though.

I civilly disagree. 

At this level, and all levels, talent prevails. A great coach can be a World of difference, sure. But if he has no tools to build with he's just wasting his time. High school, college, and the pro's are all the same; the most talented team wins the game. That is why there are so many repeats (of not necessarily championships) of success at EVERY level, high school included. The Top25 is consistently interchangeable among themselves with the occasional flavors of the week mixed in. They are there because they consistently have the most and best talent. 

In our conference, the teams that recruit the best have become the staples of the conference - WKU, Middle, SoMiss, LaTech, & Marshall. They are consistently in the top 5 in recruiting and in return they consistently are top 5 CUSA teams. If you want to win, you have to recruit. And not garbage stealth recruit or just start accepting LOI's because you have to type recruit. Out recruiting the competition is recruiting. 

I want to live a day where we accept and understand where we stand as an athletic department while being ready to hold all accountable for whatever failures take place. That means we have to eventually stop pulling out extreme outliers and creating excuses for most things, if not all things, that don't go in our favor. We need to see it, acknowledge it, and call it out as fan base. Because if we don't, we will be sitting in the exact same cess pool for the far foreseeable future.