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Louisville's WBB Coach Jeff Walz On The Participation Trophy Society Of Today

FirefightnRick

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ChristopherRyanWilkes Enthusiast

ChristopherRyanWilkes

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1 hour ago, FirefightnRick said:

Looks like Jeff got his job doing a good job at Western Kentucky, then did a good job since.  He's taken two teams to the National Championship.  So he's done well and his message is spot on.

 

Rick

 

 

Just going to leave all that other stuff floating out there without a response? Just take your licks and at least accept the dismantling. These entitled baby boomers man, never accepting when they're wrong. 

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ChristopherRyanWilkes Enthusiast

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3 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Why?  He's got a right to disagree with Walz and everyone else if he wants to.  

 

Rick

Well, I mean the 1st amendment isn't really the point here is it?

You specifically posted something presumably because you agree with the overarching generalization about the entitlement generation. Also presumably, you knew there would be responses to the contrary about that subject. But you could have just ignored what one response said, because it was very well said, but instead you nitpicked one portion of it. I am genuinely curious to know what else Tasty said that you disagree with, because I think most of us, even those who agreed with Mr. Walz before, would say it was pretty much spot-on. 

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FirefightnRick Proficient

FirefightnRick

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13 minutes ago, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

Well, I mean the 1st amendment isn't really the point here is it?

You specifically posted something presumably because you agree with the overarching generalization about the entitlement generation. Also presumably, you knew there would be responses to the contrary about that subject. But you could have just ignored what one response said, because it was very well said, but instead you nitpicked one portion of it. I am genuinely curious to know what else Tasty said that you disagree with, because I think most of us, even those who agreed with Mr. Walz before, would say it was pretty much spot-on. 

No, you just want something else to argue over.  Sounds like you need a wife.

 

Rick

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FirefightnRick

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A longer version of the same press conference. 

He mentions the societal issues in kids today before they get to college, and that he and the coaches are attempting to change some of it and get them to understand the level at which they expect them to play.  Possibly he has a few who he's having issues with that we don't know about...(Players who are more concerned about off the court issues such as wanting to kneel for the national anthem...or upset about the outcome of the election...or some other issue that's taken more of their concentration away from the game).  We don't know.

He praises The efforts of two of his own players.

I like his explaining how he hates to lose.

Towards the end he says "It's on me....I recruited these players, I have to go home and figure out how to fix this".

 

I remember McCarney saying something similar one time about how the kids these days he's experienced while coaching..(obviously generalizing for the most part and everyone knew it)...who walk in with their hand out expecting you to give them something for free, and he went off like a rocket over that for about two minutes and no one here that I recall said a word about it.    

 

Rick

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Mickey Newbie

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19 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Looks like Jeff got his job doing a good job at Western Kentucky, then did a good job since.  He's taken two teams to the National Championship.  So he's done well and his message is spot on.

 

Rick

 

 

I don't know about that (message spot on).  While everyone probably agrees in general we don't like the everyone gets trophies approach - it's a little exaggerated.

The problem in this situation is, he isn't trying to fix society, he is blaming.  It sounds to me like he doesn't want to take any responsibility for losing so he is blaming the kids HE was responsible for recruiting and HE has been developing.  So, kids fault he lost or did the coach not have as good of a recruiting class, gameplan, etc?  That doesn't make him a loser, but blaming the kids and taking no responsibility does.

Want to change what you think is a soft generation?  Start by being a good role model first.  

16 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

 

Towards the end he says "It's on me....I recruited these players, I have to go home and figure out how to fix this".

 

Thats like saying, "with all due respect ..... F*** you."  And thinking it's Ok because you said with all due respect.  This isn't Talledega Nights.  He spent a good while blaming the kids for the loss, then says it's on him.  How noble.

Tasty is right - what he is saying is true for every team in the country, why is it relavent for his loss?

Mccarney - different context.  I don't recall him saying that to explain HIS team issues, just a general commentary.

 

16 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

 

 

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FirefightnRick

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23 minutes ago, Mickey said:

I don't know about that (message spot on).  While everyone probably agrees in general we don't like the everyone gets trophies approach - it's a little exaggerated.

The problem in this situation is, he isn't trying to fix society, he is blaming.  It sounds to me like he doesn't want to take any responsibility for losing so he is blaming the kids HE was responsible for recruiting and HE has been developing.  So, kids fault he lost or did the coach not have as good of a recruiting class, gameplan, etc?  That doesn't make him a loser, but blaming the kids and taking no responsibility does.

Want to change what you think is a soft generation?  Start by being a good role model first.  

 

Thats like saying, "with all due respect ..... F*** you."  And thinking it's Ok because you said with all due respect.  This isn't Talledega Nights.  He spent a good while blaming the kids for the loss, then says it's on him.  How noble.

Tasty is right - what he is saying is true for every team in the country, why is it relavent for his loss?

Mccarney - different context.  I don't recall him saying that to explain HIS team issues, just a general commentary.

 

 

I guess it's all in how you pervcieve what he's saying I suppose?  

And if you admit you can't  recall the comment by McCarney then how can you know it's in different context? 

 

Rick

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47 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

I guess it's all in how you pervcieve what he's saying I suppose?  

And if you admit you can't  recall the comment by McCarney then how can you know it's in different context? 

 

Rick

 

It says " I don't recall his context being ....".  What that means for normal people is, that's not the way I remember it.   In other words, I am trying to be polite while I point out that you are twisting people's words around and using them in a way that they didn't intend, - and you know they didn't intend - just like you did with my words.

 

 

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FirefightnRick

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4 hours ago, Mickey said:

 

It says " I don't recall his context being ....".  What that means for normal people is, that's not the way I remember it.   In other words, I am trying to be polite while I point out that you are twisting people's words around and using them in a way that they didn't intend, - and you know they didn't intend - just like you did with my words.

 

 

I didn't intend to twist anyone's words.  But by all means, if you remember it differently do share.

 

 

 

Rick

 

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BillySee58 Grand Master

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On 12/6/2016 at 0:00 AM, TheTastyGreek said:

His POINT was that "you gotta have a will" and that his team didn't show it. He blames it on "everyone gets a trophy". And he's an idiot, or full of shit. More on that after a brief digression to the greater cultural point. 

Now, if you want to personally believe that participation ribbons and touchy-feely softness in athletics is a symbol of a weakened, soft generation... You can make an argument for it. I think you can make just as compelling an argument that Kids Today(tm) are on a high-achievement, intense treadmill of pressure to succeed. And the rigorous weeding out process in everything; athletic, academic, social, and otherwise, is more brutal now than ever. Because there are shitty, lazy, mostly worthless kids in every generation, and they'll usually (not always!) grow up to be shitty, lazy, mostly worthless adults. Just like there are high motivation, tenacious kids, sometimes with metaphorical whipmarks on their backs in every generation, and they usually (not always!) grow up to be highly successful, driven and self-motivated achievement-oriented adults. It was true in 1960, and it's true in 2016, and it was true in the 1700s, and it'll be true in another 200 years from now. Kids today that are soft and lazy don't get whipped in the face with a belt buckle. But high achievement kids a generation ago didn't have the same challenges and forge of competitive difficulty that this generation does. And I say that as a guy near 40 who grew up as part of that previous generation. 

Anyway, even if you think Kids Today(tm) are wrecked and ruined, hearing this guy make this argument in explaining a loss is horseshit. Because EVEN IF he's right, and every kid in this generation is subject to have-a-hug, trophy-for-everyone wussification... EVERY PLAYER IN THE GENERATION WENT THROUGH IT. You're coaching kids that had that same cultural softening as your opponents. He's in his tenth season at Louisville, and every player on that roster is his, two or three times over and again. He's had some of these women in his program for over a quarter of their entire lives. So, if they're soft and entitled... Why did the opposing coach fix the problem and Walz couldn't?

Now, frankly... I think any kid talented and motivated to wind up playing basketball at Louisville never bothered to keep a Participation trophy, assuming they ever got one. Because you go down that roster, and they're all winners, Frankly, they're bigger winners, more talented, and relatively greater achievers than their whiner coach ever was when he bounced a ball. Walz is coaching at LOUISVILLE. 9 out of his 10 years, he's been recruiting to a Big East or ACC school in the heart of basketball country. How many schools are a clear level above Louisville in women's basketball? I can think of four: UConn, Baylor, Stanford, and Notre Dame. Once upon a time, you could throw Tennessee in there, but I don't think that's true anymore. Otherwise, he's right there with anyone else, and he can have his pick of the talent outside of maybe 5 or 10 girls in any given year. He's not picking through the snowflake pile, even if you're of that mentality about Kids Today(tm). He's picking through All-Americans, kids who've excelled in AAU against rival top talent for most of their lives, 

So, if his incoming kids are soft, delicate snowflakes... Who is at fault that he got stuck with them? Pick through your share of the cream of the crop better. Or, if they didn't toughen up in 4 or 5 years under him... Who is at fault for that? Use your years with them to toughen them up. 

And who, exactly, on his roster is he accusing of being victim to Participation Trophy Culture? Is it Cortnee Walton? The girl who finished her degree a year and a half ago, that went 30-0 in high school, won a state championship and a national championship in high school, lettered in two different sports beyond basketball, is on track to finish with a grad degree from Louisville, and also won an award for volunteering and civic involvement that only got awarded to five kids in the whole country? All while not missing a single game last season? Is she a delicate snowflake? Because she seems pretty kick ass, and based on all she did before even getting to Louisville... It doesn't seem like she learned it from Jeff Walz. 

Again, even if Walz is right, and everyone in this generation of college kids is a soft, delicate snowflake... The other team is made up of snowflakes, too. And if the other coach is better at packing a snowball than Walz is, then the blame isn't on the snowflakes. 

The hell with Jeff Walz. Again, if you take his OWN POINTS and apply them to his history, he's a loser. Not my word, not my rationale... His. 

"Everybody thinks they should get a job. Everybody thinks they should get a GOOD job! And that's not the way it works!"

Well, how did Jeff get his job? How did this guy, who only played one actual year on the court at Northern Kentucky, get his job? Did the AD at Louisville say: "Hey! I need a guy who averaged 3 minutes a game for a Division 2 school back in 1991 to come in and teach these girls how to be winners!" Did sheer awesomeness, tenacity, and a culture of ruthless meritocracy reward this spare part on a losing team for a shitty program in the Great Lakes Valley Conference 25 years ago with a head coaching job at an ACC school?

No. I actually gave him too much credit earlier when I said he had one winning college season. Jeff finished up his bench career at a D2 school without ever playing for a winning team (LOSER!). Then, he went home to be an assistant coach for a 7th grade boys team. Lucky for Jeff, his little sister was Kentucky's Miss Basketball back in 1996. He steps up to be an assistant for her high school team, and when she verbals to WKU, ol' Jeff gets to tag along as an assistant there. If his sister were two years older, Jeff likely spends the rest of his career gathering up dodgeballs as just another middle school redass coach in too-tight short shorts. 

But, he didn't. Jeff rode the coattails of his supremely talented player (as so many high school coaches do) and little sister to a college assistant job. And when the head coach that hired him moved to Nebraska the next year, Jeff tagged along. And as soon as the guy who gave him his college break started struggling at Nebraska, he hopped on another woman's coattails, and rode her success to Minnesota, then to Maryland, and then after a decade he got his own head coaching job. 

He's been at Louisville for ten years now. He has a team full of exceptionally talented, highly acclaimed overachievers, just like the little sister who got him through the door in the first place. And he's won almost 3 out of every 4 games he's coached. But whether you're talking Big East, AAC, or ACC...He's never won his conference, he's never won his conference tournament, and he's never even won his division. If he has any coaching trophies, they're the equivalent of the '5th place loser trophy' he's talking about in his rant. And it isn't society's fault.

So, in conclusion... Jeff Walz can take his wagging finger and wave it in the mirror. His roster of superstars got beat, and he says it's because his team didn't have the will to win. And he says it's society's fault, not his. Even though almost every girl on his team had that will to win before they got to his team. Even though every player on Jeff's roster is a better example of achievement, talent, fortitude, success, and not-loserdom than Jeff was at their age. 

Jeff Walz blaming society for his team's assumed weak will is as absurd as the old regime here saying that games sell themselves. It's a horseshit rationalization from people who ought to know better. Either he's an idiot because he doesn't realize it, or he's an asshole because he's trying to avoid the blame himself.

If you think society is ruining this generation, the proof of it isn't playing ACC basketball at Louisville. All of those girls have spent their lifetime feasting on Participation Trophy kids and leaving tire tracks on their backs. And if you think Jeff Walz is right when he says that people are too often rewarded with something because of fortune, luck, circumstance, or just soft-hearted surrender to feelings... His entire career is a shining example of it. 

Frank Martin's point had a great point and it reminded me of this post of the year nominee.

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