One Thing We Can All Agree On...

Ben Gooding · November 2, 2016

...At least we're not Ball State. They hosted a Top 25 program last night in a televised game on ESPN2. They were also 4-4 going into the game last night. Not only were they 4-4 going into the game, but they have been competitive in every game they have been in this year. Before last night their largest margin of defeat was 10 points. I say all of this to tell you that they had an announced attendance of 5,614.

edcollopy · November 2, 2016

plenty of good seats still available. That's just sad. Look at Indiana though...they rarely sell that place out or get respectable crowds in the big 10

NTAlum09 · November 2, 2016

26 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

...At least we're not Ball State. They hosted a Top 25 program last night in a televised game on ESPN2. They were also 4-4 going into the game last night. Not only were they 4-4 going into the game, but they have been competitive in every game they have been in this year. Before last night their largest margin of defeat was 10 points. I say all of this to tell you that they had an announced attendance of 5,614.

1. Tuesday night after Halloween

2. World Series baseball game was on

3. People have to work the next day

I'm not a fan of the Tuesday or Wednesday night games just like I am about Thursday night NFL games.

UNTLifer · November 2, 2016

26 minutes ago, NTAlum09 said:

1. Tuesday night after Halloween

2. World Series baseball game was on

3. People have to work the next day

I'm not a fan of the Tuesday or Wednesday night games just like I am about Thursday night NFL games.

All true, but this is typical of Ball State on any night.

http://www.ballstatedaily.com/article/2016/10/sports-the-empty-nest-ball-state-working-to-increase-attendance-at-football-games

MeanGreen_MBA · November 2, 2016

43 minutes ago, NTAlum09 said:

1. Tuesday night after Halloween

2. World Series baseball game was on

3. People have to work the next day

I'm not a fan of the Tuesday or Wednesday night games just like I am about Thursday night NFL games.

Thursday night games used to be an opportunity for Mid-Majors to get some prime time attention without having to compete for viewing time with the Big guys.....that is until Thursday night became successful for watching football....then the "BIG" conferences and NFL jumped in and ruined it for everybody....

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · November 2, 2016

These are schools where people are not going to pay even $20 a seat, okay? I'll never understand why the athletic departments can't accept that. If they truly want people in the stadium cut the ticket prices way, way down to $5 a seat or less.

It's just marketing. You don't have a great product. You don't have a great venue. You really don't have a draw. So, price accordingly. Getting people to put their foot in the door might lead a more season ticket holder, or even regular attenders.

The problem with Ball State is the problem most other mid-majors face when there are other, more popular sports entertainment options in the state. Indiana has pro football, pro basketball, and Notre Dame. The Northwest corner of the state also latches onto the Chicago sports scene. Ball State falls way down the list of not only entertainment options, but Indiana/Chicago-area fandom as well.

----

What mid-majors, including us really need for attendance is the thing we sneer at: t-shirt fans. Why? Precisely, because they buy the t-shirts, show some loyalty, and go to the games.

When you have a school whose alumni traditionally don't give a crap, you can (and do) spend much time and money begging them to be interested. It's like someone pleading with their ex to get back together with them. It ain't gonna happen.

So, go out and seek new fans. The Bible says, "Seek and ye shall find." (Ye means you.)

----

MATH:
If I have 30,000 seats with an average ticket price of $20, but only sell 5,600, I've got $112,000. And, so, I've only got 5,600 patrons to buy t-shirts and nachos.

If I have 30,000 seats with an average ticket price of $5, and sell it out, I've got $150,000. Plus, I've got 24,400 more people at my venue to buy t-shirts and concessions...because they've probably brought kids along, and kids are needy little things.

----

I'm going to tell you a secret that I learned from the ancient Egyptians: When building a pyramid, you can't set the top, pointy part first; you have to start at the base and build up. Capiche?

Edited November 2, 2016 by MeanGreenMailbox

NTAlum09 · November 2, 2016

9 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

These are schools where people are not going to pay even $20 a seat, okay? I'll never understand why the athletic departments can't accept that. If they truly want people in the stadium cut the ticket prices way, way down to $5 a seat or less.

It's just marketing. You don't have a great product. You don't have a great venue. You really don't have a draw. So, price accordingly Getting people to put their foot in the door might lead a more season ticket holder, or even regular attenders.

The problem with Ball State is the problem most other mid-majors face when there are other, more popular sports entertainment options in the state. Indiana has pro football, pro basketball, and Notre Dame. The Northwest corner of the state also latches onto the Chicago sports scene. Ball State falls way down the list of not only entertainment options, but Indiana/Chicago-area fandom as well.

----

What mid-majors, including us really need for attendance is the thing we sneer at: t-shirt fans. Why? Precisely, because they buy the t-shirts, show some loyalty, and go to the games.

When you have a school whose alumni traditionally don't give a crap, you can (and do) spend much time and money begging them to be interested. It's like someone pleading with their ex to get back together with them. It ain't gonna happen.

So, go out and seek new fans. The Bible says, "Seek and ye shall find." (Ye means you.)

----

MATH:
If I have 30,000 seats with an average ticket price of $20, but only sell 5,600, I've got $112,000. And, so, I've only got 5,600 patrons to buy t-shirts and nachos.

If I have 30,000 seats with an average ticket price of $5, and sell it out, I've got $150,000. Plus, I've got 24,400 more people at my venue to buy t-shirts and concessions...because they've probably brought kids along, and kids are needy little things.

----

I'm going to tell you a secret that I learned from the ancient Egyptians: When building a pyramid, you can't set the top, pointy part first; you have to start at the base and build up. Capiche?

Good point

Wag Tag · November 2, 2016

10 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

These are schools where people are not going to pay even $20 a seat, okay? I'll never understand why the athletic departments can't accept that. If they truly want people in the stadium cut the ticket prices way, way down to $5 a seat or less.

It's just marketing. You don't have a great product. You don't have a great venue. You really don't have a draw. So, price accordingly Getting people to put their foot in the door might lead a more season ticket holder, or even regular attenders.

The problem with Ball State is the problem most other mid-majors face when there are other, more popular sports entertainment options in the state. Indiana has pro football, pro basketball, and Notre Dame. The Northwest corner of the state also latches onto the Chicago sports scene. Ball State falls way down the list of not only entertainment options, but Indiana/Chicago-area fandom as well.

----

What mid-majors, including us really need for attendance is the thing we sneer at: t-shirt fans. Why? Precisely, because they buy the t-shirts, show some loyalty, and go to the games.

When you have a school whose alumni traditionally don't give a crap, you can (and do) spend much time and money begging them to be interested. It's like someone pleading with their ex to get back together with them. It ain't gonna happen.

So, go out and seek new fans. The Bible says, "Seek and ye shall find." (Ye means you.)

----

MATH:
If I have 30,000 seats with an average ticket price of $20, but only sell 5,600, I've got $112,000. And, so, I've only got 5,600 patrons to buy t-shirts and nachos.

If I have 30,000 seats with an average ticket price of $5, and sell it out, I've got $150,000. Plus, I've got 24,400 more people at my venue to buy t-shirts and concessions...because they've probably brought kids along, and kids are needy little things.

----

I'm going to tell you a secret that I learned from the ancient Egyptians: When building a pyramid, you can't set the top, pointy part first; you have to start at the base and build up. Capiche?

Another option would be free admittance to special groups.

Ex. When we play Army have free ad for 2 with a person in a military uniform and promote at area facilities. Ask students to wear their uniform on that Friday for our green day.

Have all sit in the Wing Blast free t shirts to the crowd... Make it a military appreciation day.

An empty seat is a wasted opportunity.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · November 2, 2016

8 minutes ago, NTAlum09 said:

Good point

Thanks. I also forgot to point out that 30,000 people in the seats is probably louder...and, more exciting/inspiring for the players.

I mean, how inspiring can it be when there are so few people in the stands that you can carry on a quiet conversation with them? The players, although they surely love their families, would probably enjoy seeing someone besides mom, dad, sister, brother, and cousins show up at their games.

4 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

Another option would be free admittance to special groups.

Ex. When we play Army have free ad for 2 with a person in a military uniform and promote at area facilities. Ask students to wear their uniform on that Friday for our green day.

Have all sit in the Wing Blast free t shirts to the crowd... Make it a military appreciation day.

An empty seat is a wasted opportunity.

Exactly! Because an empty seat can't buy nachos, t-shirts, hats, pom-poms...and, yell on opponents' third downs.

PLUS...

...some of those might actually enjoy the game, and atmosphere, enough to pay their way in next time, tell friends and neighbors (for you), and become fans. Getting fans into the stadium has to comprise of a marketing scheme that does more than just beg fickle alumni to show up.

I think in the movie/theater realm, they call this "having legs." Does the product "have legs?" Well...if there aren't butts in the seats, there aren't enough legs to spread the word...so to speak.

Edited November 2, 2016 by MeanGreenMailbox

Cerebus · November 2, 2016

16 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

These are schools where people are not going to pay even $20 a seat, okay? I'll never understand why the athletic departments can't accept that. If they truly want people in the stadium cut the ticket prices way, way down to $5 a seat or less.

You are living in the past. Prices may have been a problem the pre-digital everything age. Our low attendance not a price problem, it's a time/attention problem.

I can guarantee you that the vast majority of target audience* are not being turned off by ticket prices. For the simple reason that they have no idea what a ticket costs. If we dropped our tickets to $5 they would still not come. Our problem is that to our target audience does value our product worth their time and attention.

Coming to a NT home games for most alumni means at least a one hour drive each way. It means giving up watching other games on TV. It means leaving the comfort of their house and 60" 4K TV with 12 other games one. The media is constantly talking up other teams and leagues. That is what we have to compete with.

If they could get an experience that offsets the experience they get at home, something that would make giving up 5-6 hours of what they can get at home, then the $20 price tag is nothing.

Right now, we don't have a product that does that for the vast majority of our target audience. Luckily, I think The Wren™ realizes that and is working on improving it.

*Our target audience is (alumni interested in CFB) + (local residents interested in CFB) + (students interested in CFB and/or campus events).

MeanGreen_MBA · November 2, 2016

7 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

You are living in the past. Prices may have been a problem the pre-digital everything age. Our low attendance not a price problem, it's a time/attention problem.

I can guarantee you that the vast majority of target audience* are not being turned off by ticket prices. For the simple reason that they have no idea what a ticket costs. If we dropped our tickets to $5 they would still not come. Our problem is that to our target audience does value our product worth their time and attention.

Coming to a NT home games for most alumni means at least a one hour drive each way. It means giving up watching other games on TV. It means leaving the comfort of their house and 60" 4K TV with 12 other games one. The media is constantly talking up other teams and leagues. That is what we have to compete with.

If they could get an experience that offsets the experience they get at home, something that would make giving up 5-6 hours of what they can get at home, then the $20 price tag is nothing.

Right now, we don't have a product that does that for the vast majority of our target audience. Luckily, I think The Wren™ realizes that and is working on improving it.

*Our target audience is (alumni interested in CFB) + (local residents interested in CFB) + (students interested in CFB and/or campus events).

I think you hit on something with the local media. That is a huge influence. I hear every night about TCU and SMU. Even UTA during basketball season. What I don't hear about in UNT for any purpose......except on occasion. I sent a email to Steve Doocy a couple of years ago asking why we don't see more UNT coverage, I got the reply, they need to win some games first....... Stopped watching him that day....he is not even here any more is he? Anyway, What would it take to get everybody on board to blitz the local news stations asking for more coverage of UNT sports....THE LARGEST EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTE in the DFW market....most alumni....viewers....customers. LET'S DO IT!!!!! sorry, got a little excited there.... Promotion brings in fans.....

Withers940 · November 2, 2016

2 hours ago, NTAlum09 said:

1. Tuesday night after Halloween

2. World Series baseball game was on

3. People have to work the next day

I'm not a fan of the Tuesday or Wednesday night games just like I am about Thursday night NFL games.

Im not a fan of any game not being on a Saturday. Why? Because Saturday is for the BOYS!!!

Games on Thursday are for the BIRDS

FirefightnRick · November 2, 2016

41 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

You are living in the past. Prices may have been a problem the pre-digital everything age. Our low attendance not a price problem, it's a time/attention problem.

I can guarantee you that the vast majority of target audience* are not being turned off by ticket prices. For the simple reason that they have no idea what a ticket costs. If we dropped our tickets to $5 they would still not come. Our problem is that to our target audience does value our product worth their time and attention.

Coming to a NT home games for most alumni means at least a one hour drive each way. It means giving up watching other games on TV. It means leaving the comfort of their house and 60" 4K TV with 12 other games one. The media is constantly talking up other teams and leagues. That is what we have to compete with.

If they could get an experience that offsets the experience they get at home, something that would make giving up 5-6 hours of what they can get at home, then the $20 price tag is nothing.

Right now, we don't have a product that does that for the vast majority of our target audience. Luckily, I think The Wren™ realizes that and is working on improving it.

*Our target audience is (alumni interested in CFB) + (local residents interested in CFB) + (students interested in CFB and/or campus events).

I just think as far as Jelly Jar U goes their fans are turned off right now with the chance of a third straight losing year.

I went to our game in Muncie in '09. It's located about 45 minutes to the northeast of Indianapolis surrounded by farm land. Outside of local high school activities there is nothing else to compete with Ball State. It's a small school. Their stadium is small but nice and they can easily fill it when they want to, and have done so in the past.

They had a 12-0 regular season the year before in '08. Finished that regular schedule losing the MAC championship and then their bowl game to complete a 12-2 year. But then followed that up losing 7 straight games starting with Rodge and company.

Since then they have had 3 winning seasons including going 10-3 just three seasons ago. I think something has just turned the fans off be it a Tuesday night game or the losses. When I turned it on in the third quarter last night they were down pretty big already and there couldn't have been 500 in the stands. That tells me the fans are sick of the chance of yet another losing season.

Rick

Mean Green 93-98 · November 2, 2016

20 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

I went to our game in Muncie in '09. . . . Their stadium is small but nice and they can easily fill it when they want to, and have done so in the past.

They did a pretty good job of it that evening. And that was a Thursday night game.

FirefightnRick · November 2, 2016

3 hours ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

They did a pretty good job of it that evening. And that was a Thursday night game.

Yessir... they even had folks sitting on the grass in the endzone on blankets that night.

Coming off a 12-2 season will do wonders for your attendance.

Rick

Wag Tag · November 3, 2016

10 hours ago, Cerebus said:

You are living in the past. Prices may have been a problem the pre-digital everything age. Our low attendance not a price problem, it's a time/attention problem.

I can guarantee you that the vast majority of target audience* are not being turned off by ticket prices. For the simple reason that they have no idea what a ticket costs. If we dropped our tickets to $5 they would still not come. Our problem is that to our target audience does value our product worth their time and attention.

Coming to a NT home games for most alumni means at least a one hour drive each way. It means giving up watching other games on TV. It means leaving the comfort of their house and 60" 4K TV with 12 other games one. The media is constantly talking up other teams and leagues. That is what we have to compete with.

If they could get an experience that offsets the experience they get at home, something that would make giving up 5-6 hours of what they can get at home, then the $20 price tag is nothing.

Right now, we don't have a product that does that for the vast majority of our target audience. Luckily, I think The Wren™ realizes that and is working on improving it.

*Our target audience is (alumni interested in CFB) + (local residents interested in CFB) + (students interested in CFB and/or campus events).

As Jerry has proven you have to do more that play a football game. It is about an event and the experience. Post and pre game activities or entertainment would make it an event. Still waiting for my concert? GMG