DRC: UNT on hook for $90,000 monthly in buyouts in wake of Villareal's departure

[Brett Vito]

DRC: UNT still paying for buyouts for McCarney, Petersen

http://www.dentonrc.com/sports/sports-headlines/20160621-unt-on-hook-for-90k-monthly-for-buyouts.ece

[FirefightnRick]

Ugh!!!!

 

Rick

[foutsrouts]

Helluva reason to hire younger coaches who want to work again, rather than older people who are satisfied with sitting their butts on a beach and collecting big paychecks for free.

[Wag Tag]

4 hours ago, Brett Vito said:

DRC: UNT still paying for buyouts for McCarney, Petersen

http://www.dentonrc.com/sports/sports-headlines/20160621-unt-on-hook-for-90k-monthly-for-buyouts.ece

With the right AD hire I can see alum stepping up and reducing the burden.

[UNT90]

@Brett Vito I really wish you would refer to RV's dismissal as such. He didn't "resign." He was paid to leave, which is a firing. 

If we are paying the guy $15k a month for the next 2 years, we should be allowed to call it exactly what it is.

[jtm0097]

"Every day I'm hustling, every day I'm hustling." - Rick Ross. 

I bet RV pulls out of Denton blaring this on his last day. 

[BillySee58]

Can we learn from this? Don't extend a football coach who hasn't

A. Recruited and developed his own QB

B. Recruited and developed his own d-linemen (all four starts in 2013 were inherited from Dodge) and

C. Recruited and developed his own o-linemen (3 of 5 in 2013 were inherited from Dodge and one was a walkon). Also, 6 of 11 defensive starters and 7 of 11 offensive starter that season were inherited. 

And also, don't extend an AD whose football hires are 0 for 5 in getting a winning season and 13-47 (at the time of RV's last extension).

Edited June 22, 2016 by BillySee58

[Wag Tag]

8 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Can we learn from this? Don't extend a football coach who hasn't

A. Recruited and developed his own QB

B. Recruited and developed his own d-linemen (all four starts in 2013 were inherited from Dodge) and

C. Recruited and developed his own o-linemen (3 of 5 in 2013 were inherited from Dodge and one was a walkon). Also, 6 of 11 defensive starters and 7 of 11 offensive starter that season were inherited. 

And also, don't extend an AD whose football hires are 0 for 5 in getting a winning season and 13-47 (at the time of RV's last extension).

Great points. You want to see the future of a program look at these points and how we are doing overall with recruiting.

I would also consider only 2-3 year extensions. 

[UNT86]

McCarney was extended to help with recruiting.  I don't think there was ever an expectation that he would finish the contract.  But, you don't have a chance to recruit when other schools are able to tell potential players that the head coaches contract is set to expire and has not been renewed.  That extension was to give him a chance to recruit (sadly, it didn't work out, but it was a good plan).

Peterson was also a great hire...until he wasn't.  Should have won here, but didn't and it was the right move to let him go.  RV should also get credit for Coach Mitchell.

RV was a great hire when we got him.  He did fantastic things while he was here, but as he would agree, if the people you hire don't work out, you will be the one to go.  Coach Dodge was a disaster and my biggest fault with RV is that he didn't pull the plug sooner.

Now, we have to bite the bullet for a while and it is what it is.

My thought are:

1) Don't complain about where we are.  Just show up.  It matters to the kids and coaches now.  It matters to the potential players and coaches in the future.

2) Wear your green wherever you go and be proud of your school.

[VideoEagle]

9 hours ago, foutsrouts said:

Helluva reason to hire younger coaches who want to work again, rather than older people who are satisfied with sitting their butts on a beach and collecting big paychecks for free.

It's far, far better to find the right person in the first place rather than worry about what to do if you don't hire the right person. Expecting failure makes it certain you will get it. 

 

1 hour ago, Wag Tag said:

I would also consider only 2-3 year extensions. 

I still think the problem with Mac's extension want that he got one but rather the length of it. I've no problem with an automatic one year extension for a bowl win until we've won four or five in a row. 

[MeanGreen_MBA]

15 minutes ago, UNT86 said:

McCarney was extended to help with recruiting.  I don't think there was ever an expectation that he would finish the contract.  But, you don't have a chance to recruit when other schools are able to tell potential players that the head coaches contract is set to expire and has not been renewed.  That extension was to give him a chance to recruit (sadly, it didn't work out, but it was a good plan).

Peterson was also a great hire...until he wasn't.  Should have won here, but didn't and it was the right move to let him go.  RV should also get credit for Coach Mitchell.

RV was a great hire when we got him.  He did fantastic things while he was here, but as he would agree, if the people you hire don't work out, you will be the one to go.  Coach Dodge was a disaster and my biggest fault with RV is that he didn't pull the plug sooner.

Now, we have to bite the bullet for a while and it is what it is.

My thought are:

1) Don't complain about where we are.  Just show up.  It matters to the kids and coaches now.  It matters to the potential players and coaches in the future.

2) Wear your green wherever you go and be proud of your school.

Nice analysis

[southsideguy]

3 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

I may not be able to make it, but I'll put my concerns on a banner

note to self, look for the green tinted glasses when i get home

maybe we could have rv and mac check parking passes on game day since we are paying them.

[Harry]

1 hour ago, UNT86 said:

McCarney was extended to help with recruiting.  I don't think there was ever an expectation that he would finish the contract.  But, you don't have a chance to recruit when other schools are able to tell potential players that the head coaches contract is set to expire and has not been renewed.  That extension was to give him a chance to recruit (sadly, it didn't work out, but it was a good plan).

Peterson was also a great hire...until he wasn't.  Should have won here, but didn't and it was the right move to let him go.  RV should also get credit for Coach Mitchell.

RV was a great hire when we got him.  He did fantastic things while he was here, but as he would agree, if the people you hire don't work out, you will be the one to go.  Coach Dodge was a disaster and my biggest fault with RV is that he didn't pull the plug sooner.

Now, we have to bite the bullet for a while and it is what it is.

My thought are:

1) Don't complain about where we are.  Just show up.  It matters to the kids and coaches now.  It matters to the potential players and coaches in the future.

2) Wear your green wherever you go and be proud of your school.

Great post.  You clearly have insight and wisdom about this situation that is useful.  Thank you for sharing it. 

If I may a couple of thoughts on your post ---

Petersen should have killed it here but he was basically looking for a retirement package.  He really stabbed RV in the back on that deal.  However, RV should have been able to see through that.  It's hard when you are friends.  On paper I agree that Petersen was a good hire but we have to rely on the AD to look beyond the paper.

On Dodge and the 4th year, I will defend RV a bit.  He did make the hire but it seemed like the best we could do with the LIMITED budget we had at  the time.  Yes he should have fired Dodge sooner but he was hampered by the administration who AGAIN did not want to pay the big bucks for the next hire.  That 4th year for Dodge was a bankroll for the next hire with Mac who demanded that we pay our assistants more or he wouldn't consider the job.  To me it showed a complete LACK of understanding from the administration as to what we were doing.  We let Dodge coach a 4th wasted year, with no credibility and then bring a new regime in to open the biggest capital expenditure in the universities history?  There was no vision.

The McCarney extension was partly bad luck.   You had a great year, perhaps one of the greatest ever in the history of the program in 2013 and you want to keep it going.  The problem was it was built off of Dodge's players.  Hindsight is 20/20 but we probably should have waited on the extension until Mac could pull another offer and force our hand.

I agree that complaining serves no purpose, but we do need to provide our input and feedback (in a respectful way) or history will repeat itself.  Most of all, we need transparency.  I think we also need alumni/booster representation.  Things had become too centralized under RV.

 

[Wag Tag]

4 hours ago, Harry said:

Great post.  You clearly have insight and wisdom about this situation that is useful.  Thank you for sharing it. 

If I may a couple of thoughts on your post ---

Petersen should have killed it here but he was basically looking for a retirement package.  He really stabbed RV in the back on that deal.  However, RV should have been able to see through that.  It's hard when you are friends.  On paper I agree that Petersen was a good hire but we have to rely on the AD to look beyond the paper.

On Dodge and the 4th year, I will defend RV a bit.  He did make the hire but it seemed like the best we could do with the LIMITED budget we had at  the time.  Yes he should have fired Dodge sooner but he was hampered by the administration who AGAIN did not want to pay the big bucks for the next hire.  That 4th year for Dodge was a bankroll for the next hire with Mac who demanded that we pay our assistants more or he wouldn't consider the job.  To me it showed a complete LACK of understanding from the administration as to what we were doing.  We let Dodge coach a 4th wasted year, with no credibility and then bring a new regime in to open the biggest capital expenditure in the universities history?  There was no vision.

The McCarney extension was partly bad luck.   You had a great year, perhaps one of the greatest ever in the history of the program in 2013 and you want to keep it going.  The problem was it was built off of Dodge's players.  Hindsight is 20/20 but we probably should have waited on the extension until Mac could pull another offer and force our hand.

I agree that complaining serves no purpose, but we do need to provide our input and feedback (in a respectful way) or history will repeat itself.  Most of all, we need transparency.  I think we also need alumni/booster representation.  Things had become too centralized under RV.

 

I don't understand the statement that Mac needed a five year deal for recruiting. I would imagine most college coaches are in a third or 2 nd year of a existing contract. With a 3 year extension I believe we would have the same results! Big red flag to me is when we lost the DT that played with Power TE (?) at JUCO to Ark State! We had a new Stadium!!!!!!!

Edited June 22, 2016 by Wag Tag

[UNT90]

2 hours ago, Wag Tag said:

I don't understand the statement that Mac needed a five year deal for recruiting. I would imagine most college coaches are in a third or 2 nd year of a existing contract. With a 3 year extension I believe we would have the same results! Big red flag to me is when we lost the DT that played with Power TE (?) at JUCO to Ark State! We had a new Stadium!!!!!!!

Mac got a 3 year extension after the bowl game, not a 5 year extension. 

In hindsight, it should have been no more than 2, and all of us should have looked deeper into what was going on with recruiting, especially one Rick Villarreal. 

[Mean Green Matt]

I've seen multiple people in this thread suggest that Petersen was a great choice on paper. How exactly? His entire coaching career suggested nothing but mediocrity. What we got was even worse than that. He wasn't going to be brought back to wake forest and somehow we thought it was a good plan to buy out his contract at Wake. Mccarney was the same situation with regard to track record  

We were promised proven winners with head coaching experience. None of Mac, Petersen, or Benford fit that and look what has happened.  

Edited June 23, 2016 by Mean Green Matt

[Army of Dad]

2 minutes ago, Mean Green Matt said:

I've seen multiple people in this thread suggest that Petersen was a great choice on paper. How exactly? His entire coaching career suggested nothing but mediocrity. What we got was even worse than that. He wasn't going to be brought back to wake forest and somehow we thought it was a good plan to buy out his contract at Wake. Mccarney was the same situation with regard to track record  

We were promised proven winners with head coaching experience. None of Mac, Petersen, or Benford fit that and look what has happened.  

Yea, first paragraph.

[TreeFiddy]

20 minutes ago, Mean Green Matt said:

I've seen multiple people in this thread suggest that Petersen was a great choice on paper. How exactly? His entire coaching career suggested nothing but mediocrity. What we got was even worse than that. He wasn't going to be brought back to wake forest and somehow we thought it was a good plan to buy out his contract at Wake. Mccarney was the same situation with regard to track record  

We were promised proven winners with head coaching experience. None of Mac, Petersen, or Benford fit that and look what has happened.  

And the guy that made those decisions is gone. 

[FirefightnRick]

4 hours ago, TreeFiddy said:

And the guy that made those decisions is gone. 

And the guy who was second in command in the room each time those decisions were made is now a potential replacement for the guy that is gone.

And by the way,..I completely agree with Mean Green Matt above.

Peterson was headed out the door at Wake.  His track record was nothing special.  Then possibly the worst of it all is how he treated his players.  Had anyone done some research on his past prior to hiring him I'm certain someone would have given a better read into how he coached and dealt with his players, and that would have eliminated him from our job.

 

Rick

 

 

Edited June 23, 2016 by FirefightnRick

[foutsrouts]

6 hours ago, Mean Green Matt said:

I've seen multiple people in this thread suggest that Petersen was a great choice on paper. How exactly? His entire coaching career suggested nothing but mediocrity. What we got was even worse than that. He wasn't going to be brought back to wake forest and somehow we thought it was a good plan to buy out his contract at Wake. Mccarney was the same situation with regard to track record  

We were promised proven winners with head coaching experience. None of Mac, Petersen, or Benford fit that and look what has happened.  

Simply inferiority complex love because it was P5 Wake. We should think better.

[meanrob]

16 hours ago, UNT86 said:

McCarney was extended to help with recruiting.  I don't think there was ever an expectation that he would finish the contract.  But, you don't have a chance to recruit when other schools are able to tell potential players that the head coaches contract is set to expire and has not been renewed.  That extension was to give him a chance to recruit (sadly, it didn't work out, but it was a good plan).

Peterson was also a great hire...until he wasn't.  Should have won here, but didn't and it was the right move to let him go.  RV should also get credit for Coach Mitchell.

RV was a great hire when we got him.  He did fantastic things while he was here, but as he would agree, if the people you hire don't work out, you will be the one to go.  Coach Dodge was a disaster and my biggest fault with RV is that he didn't pull the plug sooner.

Now, we have to bite the bullet for a while and it is what it is.

My thought are:

1) Don't complain about where we are.  Just show up.  It matters to the kids and coaches now.  It matters to the potential players and coaches in the future.

2) Wear your green wherever you go and be proud of your school.

You have a very different definition of the word "fantastic" than myself. 

[GTWT]

11 hours ago, meanrob said:

You have a very different definition of the word "fantastic" than myself. 

In my opinion the improvement in facilities was 'fantastic'.  In my opinion getting out of the Sun Belt was 'fantastic'.  RV's problem, again in my opinion, was in coaching fires & hires.

[FirefightnRick]

On June 22, 2016 at 0:00 PM, Harry said:

Great post.  You clearly have insight and wisdom about this situation that is useful.  Thank you for sharing it. 

If I may a couple of thoughts on your post ---

Petersen should have killed it here but he was basically looking for a retirement package.  He really stabbed RV in the back on that deal.  However, RV should have been able to see through that.  It's hard when you are friends.  On paper I agree that Petersen was a good hire but we have to rely on the AD to look beyond the paper.

On Dodge and the 4th year, I will defend RV a bit.  He did make the hire but it seemed like the best we could do with the LIMITED budget we had at  the time.  Yes he should have fired Dodge sooner but he was hampered by the administration who AGAIN did not want to pay the big bucks for the next hire.  That 4th year for Dodge was a bankroll for the next hire with Mac who demanded that we pay our assistants more or he wouldn't consider the job.  To me it showed a complete LACK of understanding from the administration as to what we were doing.  We let Dodge coach a 4th wasted year, with no credibility and then bring a new regime in to open the biggest capital expenditure in the universities history?  There was no vision.

The McCarney extension was partly bad luck.   You had a great year, perhaps one of the greatest ever in the history of the program in 2013 and you want to keep it going.  The problem was it was built off of Dodge's players.  Hindsight is 20/20 but we probably should have waited on the extension until Mac could pull another offer and force our hand.

I agree that complaining serves no purpose, but we do need to provide our input and feedback (in a respectful way) or history will repeat itself.  Most of all, we need transparency.  I think we also need alumni/booster representation.  Things had become too centralized under RV.

 

 

Nope...

We know for certain that Don Carthel at West Texas A&M wanted our job, applied for our job but never heard back from anyone.

 

Rick

 

[UNT90]

8 hours ago, GTWT said:

In my opinion the improvement in facilities was 'fantastic'.  In my opinion getting out of the Sun Belt was 'fantastic'.  RV's problem, again in my opinion, was in coaching fires & hires.

If the facilities didn't improve, UNT would be an FCS right now.

Facility improvements would have occurred if UNT wanted to stay FBS. An effective AD may have gotten the athletic fee through the first time.

RV inherited one of the worst athletic situations in FBS. After dumping millions of dollars into facilities, RV leaves one of the worst athletic situations in FBS.

That isn't success.

 

 

[VideoEagle]

8 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

 

Nope...

We know for certain that Don Carthel at West Texas A&M wanted our job, applied for our job but never heard back from anyone.

 

Rick

 

I thought he said he was interested but we never found anything on the record that he actually applied. I could be wrong, but I don't remember anyone finding any application.