I am against the Banner

[Harry]

I am against the banner.  I think it is petty and mean spirited.   I contributed to the banner we flew in support of the team at SMU.  I will not contribute to this.  I said as much last night on the podcast but I feel compelled to put it down in words.

I understand and respect the right of people to voice their opinions and believe in free speech.  But this thing has gone too far.  If the major press picks up on this, I believe it it will ultimately embarrass and humiliate the university.  So I implore the fans who are participating in this misguided project to please step down.  Lay down your sword.  You've made your position known -- you don't have to turn the knife again.  Stop it now before more damage is done.

I do think many of the participants are good fans and truly believe that this Flag is the right thing to do but I believe they are misguided.  I think this Banner spells out one message very clearly and that message is ANARCHY.  This is not the type of message we need to be communicating when we are trying to hire a new coach who hopefully will take us to the next level.  This is not the message we need to portray to our students and the rest of the world.

My advisement is you put your faith in the leadership at UNT and in this case that is our President Dr. Smatresk.   He may not be responding to every letter and email (God forbid he has a pretty busy job), but I believe he is listening and taking it into his account.  He is not ignoring you.  This is the honorable way to deal with this situation.  If you did not like the way he responded to your first letter write another one.  Call his office, Call the BOR Call Lee Jackson whoever, but please do not air our dirty laundry publicly for all to see (including future coaches).

I would like us to land the very best football coach that we can, and I think we can do that.  The president obviously believes that we are best positioned to do that with RV at the helm or he would have already made a change.   This whole Flag thing takes away from that very important coaching discussion -- which I believe is a whole lot more important in the grand scheme of things.  As CBL wisely pointed out there could be other things going on behind the scenes that require the leadership to handle this particular situation as they are.  As hard as it may be we need to trust them to do the right thing.

Many of you state you tried to contact Smatresk and since he did not respond directly to you this Flag is your only option.  I don't think that is true, rather it is just an excuse to try to humiliate RV publicly.  And if it is truly the reason, should this not be a fire Smatresk flag?  I mean, isn't he the one who is not responding to your concerns?  Is not he the one who made the decision to keep RV in his position?  Why does Smatresk get a pass here?  I think the answer is it does not fit your agenda.

The banner will hurt RV personally more than anything else.  There is a feeding frenzy that is getting ugly here.  Believe me --  I understand people are frustrated -  but I honestly believe this is not the way to handle it.  In fact, I will say it now, not one good thing will come of this.. not one good thing.  I also think it will bring more negativity to our University in this very short window we have to hire a good coach.  And let me be clear -- I don't think it will change a thing.  The money could be spent in better ways in my opinion.

If you will not take my word on this, then how about the courageous former athlete who came on here and spoke from her heart?  I think she eloquently stated the situation far better than I ever could.  It feels wrong...dirty.   I believe deep down, many of the participants don't feel right about this and my hope is they will come to their senses and call this thing off.

GMG

[UNT Five&Dime]

Oh shit. They got to Harry.

[UNTnewbie]

Well written @Harry! Thank you and I'm on board with 100% of your thoughts!

[Ben Gooding]

I am against the banner.  I think it is petty and mean spirited.   I contributed to the banner we flew in support of the team at SMU.  I will not contribute to this.  I said as much last night on the podcast but I feel compelled to put it down in words.

I understand and respect the right of people to voice their opinions and believe in free speech.  But this thing has gone too far.  If the major press picks up on this, I believe it it will ultimately embarrass and humiliate the university.  So I implore the fans who are participating in this misguided project to please step down.  Lay down your sword.  You've made your position known -- you don't have to turn the knife again.  Stop it now before more damage is done.

I do think many of the participants are good fans and truly believe that this Flag is the right thing to do but I believe they are misguided.  I think this Banner spells out one message very clearly and that message is ANARCHY.  This is not the type of message we need to be communicating when we are trying to hire a new coach who hopefully will take us to the next level.  This is not the message we need to portray to our students and the rest of the world.

My advisement is you put your faith in the leadership at UNT and in this case that is our President Dr. Smatresk.   He may not be responding to every letter and email (God forbid he has a pretty busy job), but I believe he is listening and taking it into his account.  He is not ignoring you.  This is the honorable way to deal with this situation.  If you did not like the way he responded to your first letter write another one.  Call his office, Call the BOR Call Lee Jackson whoever, but please do not air our dirty laundry publicly for all to see (including future coaches).

I would like us to land the very best football coach that we can, and I think we can do that.  The president obviously believes that we are best positioned to do that with RV at the helm or he would have already made a change.   This whole Flag thing takes away from that very important coaching discussion -- which I believe is a whole lot more important in the grand scheme of things.  As CMJ wisely pointed out there could be other things going on behind the scenes that require the leadership to handle this particular situation as they are. 

Many of you state you tried to contact Smatresk and since he did not respond directly to you this Flag is your only option.  I don't think that is true, rather it is just an excuse to try to humiliate RV publicly.  And if it is truly the reason, should this not be a fire Smatresk flag?  I mean, isn't he the one who is not responding to your concerns?  Is not he the one who made the decision to keep RV in his position?  Why does Smatresk get a pass here?  I think the answer is it does not fit your agenda.

The banner will hurt RV personally more than anything else.  There is a feeding frenzy that is getting ugly here.  Believe me --  I understand people are frustrated -  but I honestly believe this is not the way to handle it.  In fact, I will say it now, not one good thing will come of this.. not one good thing.  I also think it will bring more negativity to our University in this very short window we have to hire a good coach.  And let me be clear -- I don't think it will change a thing.  The money could be spent in better ways in my opinion.

If you will not take my word on this, then how about the courageous former athlete who came on here and spoke from her heart?  I think she eloquently stated the situation far better than I ever could.  It feels wrong...dirty.   I believe deep down, many of the participants don't feel right about this and my hope is they will come to their senses and call this thing off.

GMG

I disagree with a lot of this. 

I do agree with Smastrek about needing to be held accountable for allowing this to continue. I stated a few days ago that Smastrek is slowing painting himself into the picture. If this drags on then he is smack dab right in the middle of the picture. With that said, this banner will also be indirectly towards Smastrek and that goes without saying...he is RV's supervisor. It's a form of screaming for action because whispering was falling on deaf ears. This is called pressure. Pressure for change. These kind of things and at times worse happens all over the country. It's about time this kind of stuff is happening at North Texas. If this kind of pressure had been put on the athletic administration for the last 15 years do you think we would be anywhere close to this predicament (serious questions)? 

[FirefightnRick]

Oh shit. They got to Harry.

Where you been?---sarcasm-

 

How in hell anyone thinks an hour long fly over is in anyway going to embarrass this university and it's AD any more than 0-6 and PSU 66- NT 7 is beyond me?

 

Only at North Texas.

 

Rick

[Matt from A700]

I am a student who agrees with the banner. I see it this way: if a potential head coach were to see this banner, he'd know the despite a mostly-losing recent history, UNT still has passionate fans who want to see their team represent the school well; that we set high standards for our academics and athletics. I think RV has already indirectly embarrassed the university more than we can with the banner with his hires. If Rick or Neal wants to be stubborn, then we just have to apply the pressure.

[NTAlum09]

I'm for it 100%.

I'm also tired of this fan base getting pushed around and not being heard. It also pisses me off that us alumni spent our hard earn money to watch a team lose 66-7 to a FCS team.

66-7 to a FCS school is what my family and friends got to experience that Saturday....to be embarrassed. 

I'm happy to see that our fan base is not soft anymore and want to change for the right reasons.

Edited October 22, 2015 by NTAlum09

[rcade]

My advisement is you put your faith in the leadership at UNT and in this case that is our President Dr. Smatresk.   He may not be responding to every letter and email (God forbid he has a pretty busy job), but I believe he is listening and taking it into his account.  He is not ignoring you.  This is the honorable way to deal with this situation.  If you did not like the way he responded to your first letter write another one.  Call his office, Call the BOR Call Lee Jackson whoever, but please do not air our dirty laundry publicly for all to see (including future coaches). ...

Many of you state you tried to contact Smatresk and since he did not respond directly to you this Flag is your only option.  I don't think that is true, rather it is just an excuse to try to humiliate RV publicly.  And if it is truly the reason, should this not be a fire Smatresk flag?  I mean, isn't he the one who is not responding to your concerns?  Is not he the one who made the decision to keep RV in his position?  Why does Smatresk get a pass here?

Smatresk has been UNT president for 18 months. The McCarney firing and the decision to let RV lead the new coaching search are the first opportunity Smatresk has had to put a major stamp on our athletics program. Calling to fire him would be ridiculously premature. He still has a chance to make a difference by taking RV out of the loop on the new coach. Smatresk has time to accomplish what happened when he was president of UNLV, where the AD suddenly and unexpectedly felt the need to retire so he could spend more time with his family.

We sent letters to Smatresk. Others contacted them in other ways. What did it get us? Generic replies and RV saying a bunch of things in the press that show he doesn't hear our concerns and doesn't even think there's a problem. To him, he keeps making good hires, the fault for failure lies with conditions beyond his control and fans who want a change at the top are just a "minority." When I hear him talk, I'm reminded of how much Jimmy Johnson hated excuses as Dallas Cowboys coach. Any time a coach or school official gives a reason for why UNT can't be successful, I want Jimmy and his Kip's Big Boy hair to magically appear, point to Fouts and scream "the excuses field is OVER THERE." We have Apogee now. The era of excuses is over.

Nobody is doing this out of a desire to humiliate RV. That's like saying the people who booed at the end of homecoming wanted to humiliate McCarney.

We're just booing a little louder, in a form college fans all over the FBS understand, in the hopes it will be heard.

[Aldo]

RV is tearing this family apart :-(

Anyway, while I am not for the banner, I can understand why people are doing it. They feel voiceless after letters of concern to Smatresk are being taunted on here. 

Individual people on this board are being publicly called out for their letters by folks who were not meant to receive them. How is that ok? 

How would it not naturally escalate?

[Cr1028]

Just imagine the feeling of the players, coaches, recruits, coaching candidates, and the general fanbase if you all were to shelve the 'Fire RV' banner and instead fly the banner we flew over SMU's stadium. The amount of positivity that would envelope the program from all those people knowing that we still support them even in the program's darkest hour would likely be amazing. Just an idea.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Cr1028

[UNTcrazy727]

I think it will put out the message that UNT fans have finally had enough and are tired of being the laughing stock of college football in Texas. If the local media does pick it up, that will be a big part of the narrative. Like Rick said above, they're already laughing at us from our performance two weeks ago.

You know what's embarrassing to this university? RV saying in an interview that he has a good track record of hires and that 18 wins in three years should be something to be proud of. I'm sorry, but I have higher standards for this program.

[Caw Caw]

How about a compromise banner?

"Go Mean Green, We Love You! Except you RV, except you."

[cogido]

I disagree with the banner ! I too am a LONG TIME passionate UNT fan, alum and I am also frustrated with the poor management of our football and basketball programs. But I think that the problem includes RV yet  is bigger than RV. The BOR and the Administration have never fully pumped the athletic program the way a Division I University requires in order to be competitive more often than not.  A firm decision from the Board, the President and the Administrative leadership CAN AND WILL put UNT over the top but for some reason (?) they timidly drag their feet.  UNT can win consistently as well as fill Apogee and the Pit regularly and showcase UNT, however  all the Head Coach and AD replacements will only  continue to mean nothing without REAL COMITTMENT from the BOR, President and administrative leadership .  No, I am not for the banner, it's short sighted and misses the larger problem. 

[EagleMBA]

Harry, I have the greatest respect for you and what you have done. I also appreciate the counsel you gave in your post. So, it pains me to tell you that we have to agree to disagree on this one. My reasons would pretty much just duplicate the opinions of the guys who beat me to the keystrokes in this thread.

[ladysoccereagle]

I am a student who agrees with the banner. I see it this way: if a potential head coach were to see this banner, he'd know the despite a mostly-losing recent history, UNT still has passionate fans who want to see their team represent the school well; that we set high standards for our academics and athletics. I think RV has already indirectly embarrassed the university more than we can with the banner with his hires. If Rick or Neal wants to be stubborn, then we just have to apply the pressure.

Any potential coach would see this banner and think "oh great-if I screw up then their "fan" base is going to publicly humiliate me the same way" and not even give UNT a second glance. People seem to forget the 25 conference championships that RV has been apart of while being here at NT spread out over several sports in our athletic program and the sports facilities that all of our teams get to use because they were built during his tenure here.

[EagleMBA]

I disagree with the banner ! I too am a LONG TIME passionate UNT fan, alum and I am also frustrated with the poor management of our football and basketball programs. But I think that the problem includes RV yet  is bigger than RV. The BOR and the Administration have never fully pumped the athletic program the way a Division I University requires in order to be competitive more often than not.  A firm decision from the Board, the President and the Administrative leadership CAN AND WILL put UNT over the top but for some reason (?) they timidly drag their feet.  UNT can win consistently as well as fill Apogee and the Pit regularly and showcase UNT, however  all the Head Coach and AD replacements will only  continue to mean nothing without REAL COMITTMENT from the BOR, President and administrative leadership .  No, I am not for the banner, it's short sighted and misses the larger problem. 

Action overcomes inertia, and I think inertia is what you describe. From the old kids' story -- Someone Must Bell The Cat!

[Green92]

I agree with you, @harry. You Ana's a handful of posters are the only reason I came back to this site. The hatefulness thrown around here is embarrassing. I think RV has accomplished all he can do at NT. I'm ready for new leadership. You'd think he committed some kind of heinous crime. The people that are so hateful and petty deserve their misery. 

[GRN-WHT]

Harry,

It's not anarchy, not even close. We aren't breaking laws, we aren't throwing bricks through the windows at the athletic center, we aren't protesting at the foot of the pedestrian bridge preventing people from getting across.

At the moment, I have been given absolutely NO reason to put any trust in Smatresk. We have ZERO evidence that he is reading any of our emails or tweets. ZERO. All we get is a form letter from an employee that we know forwards emails to RV instead of the president. And Smatresk isn't getting a pass from me. His lack of any kind of statement either way on RV, even just a simple "I hear you" is wearing thin and his time to take action is slipping away.

This banner will be the first time where I feel like my voice is getting heard. I will not stand down until RV is gone.

[Travis]

The banner is fine... after all, Rick V contributed to it himself. 

[UNTcrazy727]

Any potential coach would see this banner and think "oh great-if I screw up then their "fan" base is going to publicly humiliate me the same way" and not even give UNT a second glance. People seem to forget the 25 conference championships that RV has been apart of while being here at NT spread out over several sports in our athletic program and the sports facilities that all of our teams get to use because they were built during his tenure here.

I'm sorry, but RV and the situation surrounding him are the reasons a coach won't come here. He's lost the respect and trust of his fan base and the writing is on the wall that he's on his way out. No coach will want to come here knowing a new AD will be in place the year after he's hired.

[Matt from A700]

Any potential coach would see this banner and think "oh great-if I screw up then their "fan" base is going to publicly humiliate me the same way" and not even give UNT a second glance. 

UNT would not be the first school to start a campaign to get someone fired. I think only a bad coach lacking confidence would see it as a treat. A badly-needed good coach would embrace it as a challenge.

[GreenTexan13]

You are a good man Harry and a symbol of what a true fan/alum should be at UNT. But I just don't see any other way... You said it yourself on last night's podcast, "We have got to make the right hire this time" that we cannot screw up the last chance basically. And I don't trust with RV taking that risk for us... He screwed up big time with the last two FB coaches. If Smatresk thinks RV is our guy, then he will be making one of the worst mistakes of his career for North Texas.

[VideoEagle]

Thank you Harry for being willing to take what is an uncomfortable position. I agree with all you wrote. 

Rick, I don't think the banner is any more embarrassing that 0-6 or 66-7. But it clearly, unquestionably adds to it and will make the embarrassment even greater. More over, it increased the embarrassment without increasing the chance of any improvements in the athletic department. 

 

[Quoner]

Harry,

It's not anarchy, not even close. We aren't breaking laws, we aren't throwing bricks through the windows at the athletic center, we aren't protesting at the foot of the pedestrian bridge preventing people from getting across.

At the moment, I have been given absolutely NO reason to put any trust in Smatresk. We have ZERO evidence that he is reading any of our emails or tweets. ZERO. All we get is a form letter from an employee that we know forwards emails to RV instead of the president. And Smatresk isn't getting a pass from me. His lack of any kind of statement either way on RV, even just a simple "I hear you" is wearing thin and his time to take action is slipping away.

This banner will be the first time where I feel like my voice is getting heard. I will not stand down until RV is gone.

We need more subsets of choices. Can I start a small bubble of agreeing with a lot of what is said but also thinking the banner won't do anything that isn't already happening and possibly even backfire?

And I mean, look how lax you guys have been with the FireRV.com domain so horribly twisted and perverted beyond what it was obviously intended for. Escalating from letters to planes just seems sloppy. All these years of demanding billboards and now they are just left to display some crap about how if you lived here, you'd be home by now? And don't even get me going on posters, signs, college gameday crashing - where's the pageantry? For shame, slackers.

[All About UNT]

It's not that I believe that he deserves this type of shaming.  I do take issue with items that I feel are very problematic for this upcoming coaching hire (if conducted by RV).

1.) His coaching hires have proven to not be competent and while he has raised money to produce facilities that is all negated by the losing history that North Texas sports recently has.

2.) His continued presence hinders our abilities to reach out to coaches and get someone in here that can make a difference.  Coaches all around will know that Mac was fired directly after the Portland St. debacle.  Coaches will know that our fanbase collectively wants him gone.  Coaches will know that will RV hires them that there is a VERY small chance that he will be here in 2 years.

As far as bringing up the random conference championships that have occurred since RV was here.... that is pointless.  We diehards love the soccer, tennis and golf programs but that isn't what people look to when gauging a 37k student university's sports successes.