UNT Football (why can't we win?)

[wardly]

Are we one of those schools where you can't at consistently win ? I mean, do more than have a winning season once in a blue moon.Akron,FIU,Kansas,HAWAII,UTEP,all the directional Michigan schools, both New Mexico schools,UNLV,Wyoming,Vanderbilt, and quite a few others come to mind. Are we one of those football programs that are bottom feeders, because it sure looks like it.I never thought than in 52 years of following Eagle football that we would be ranked dead ass last in the polls.[128th out of 128].Todd Dodge was over his head as a college head coach, but he recruited enough talent for us to win a bowl game. Since then its been a downward spiral. In golf its called L.O.F.T. [lack of frigging talent], which in my opinion resonates both on and off the field.I really feel sorry for the poor SOB who has to follow in Coach Mac's footsteps. But back to my original question: are we one of those?

[GM1998]

Are we one of those schools where you can't at consistently win ? I mean, do more than have a winning season once in a blue moon.Akron,FIU,Kansas,HAWAII,UTEP,all the directional Michigan schools, both New Mexico schools,UNLV,Wyoming,Vanderbilt, and quite a few others come to mind. Are we one of those football programs that are bottom feeders, because it sure looks like it.I never thought than in 52 years of following Eagle football that we would be ranked dead ass last in the polls.[128th out of 128].Todd Dodge was over his head as a college head coach, but he recruited enough talent for us to win a bowl game. Since then its been a downward spiral. In golf its called L.O.F.T. [lack of frigging talent], which in my opinion resonates both on and off the field.I really feel sorry for the poor SOB who has to follow in Coach Mac's footsteps. But back to my original question: are we one of those?

If history is any indicator than yes we are.

The issue is that the alumni are tired of being a doormat. We will no longer write checks to a university who isn't scared to ask when the team is terrible. There are reasons some of the schools on that list are having trouble competing. UTEP, NMSU, UNM and Wyoming are at the end of civilization. They are scratching for unrecruited kids from Texas and California. Plus they fill their gaps w/ transfers and JUCO kids. Kansas is a basketball school. FIU, USF and FAU get the scraps from the area SEC schools and ACC blue bloods FSU and Miami. Vanderbilt is in the SEC but they have academic standards while the rest of the conference plays football. The directional Michigan schools are in the heart of big 10 country and fight over recruits. We on the otherhand are the largest university in the metro-plex. We finally have nice facilities and are in a cool, if quirky college town. The days of commuter school are over. Sure lots still commute, but many live in Denton. The most important fact is WE ARE IN TEXAS, THE HOT BED OF HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL!!!!!

We need a guy who doesn't look at our history but at our potential. I was at UNT in the early to mid 1990s. Boise State had just started to make some moves. If you can pull that off in Boise, Idaho, why is it so hard in Denton, Texas?

Sorry for dissertation.

[ColoradoEagle]

Everything at UNT is self-inflicted. There's nothing that inherently keeps us from at least being competitive in CUSA other than ourselves. TCU was a perennial loser post-WW2 until, in the late 90s, they decided to do something about it. Now they're one of the elite athletics programs in the country. The difference between our two programs isn't 40 miles, it's one administration that decided to put everything they had into athletics vs. another who looks at athletics as a line item in the annual budget.

Edited October 6, 2015 by ColoradoEagle

[UNT90]

Everything at UNT is self-inflicted. There's nothing that inherently keeps us from at least being competitive in CUSA other than ourselves. TCU was a perennial loser post-WW2 until, in the late 90s, they decided to do something about it. Now they're one of the elite athletics programs in the country. The difference between our two programs isn't 40 miles, it's one administration that decided to put everything they had into athletics vs. another who looks at athletics as a line item in the fiscal budget.

So so so so dead on.

The only thing that keeps us from succeeding is an administration that doesn't care. We have an AD in his 15th year while being a consistent loser in the biggest money sport at the university. 

That tells you everything you need to know.

[KingDL1]

Yes we can win and we have an overall tradition of winning, we still have an winning record all time despite the last 20 years or so.  

We need to get something right and correct our course, Rick Villarreal has proved incapable of making the correct choices and needs to be replaced with a much higher quality AD that can bring new energy, demand winning, and build this program up to the giant North Texas should be.  Clean House start at the top. 

[Rudy]

We can win again, all it takes is an administration that gives a damn, and an athletic department that is not the most bush leave, worst run athletic department in the NATION.   It appears that we now have alumni who are tired of the losing, so now maybe we can put pressure on the other two things. 

 

Perfect example of how bush league we are, how effing hard is it to have the cheerleaders run onto the field during a timeout, with Eugene Levy, and do an organized "North Texas" chant? No, we have to go and have the PA announcer EXPLAIN it to us!

Edited October 6, 2015 by Rudy

[BillySee58]

Everything at UNT is self-inflicted. There's nothing that inherently keeps us from at least being competitive in CUSA other than ourselves. TCU was a perennial loser post-WW2 until, in the late 90s, they decided to do something about it. Now they're one of the elite athletics programs in the country. The difference between our two programs isn't 40 miles, it's one administration that decided to put everything they had into athletics vs. another who looks at athletics as a line item in the annual budget.

Great post

[Harry]

Everything at UNT is self-inflicted. There's nothing that inherently keeps us from at least being competitive in CUSA other than ourselves. TCU was a perennial loser post-WW2 until, in the late 90s, they decided to do something about it. Now they're one of the elite athletics programs in the country. The difference between our two programs isn't 40 miles, it's one administration that decided to put everything they had into athletics vs. another who looks at athletics as a line item in the annual budget.

So eloquently put.  +1

[DeepGreen]

Not only does UNT treat athletics like a budget line item, they also regard athletics the same as a high school.  Athletics is an "activity" that Johnny and Sally can participate in if they desire to.  Sure, they have to be good and make the team. But the sports are "there" to participate in.  Just like high school.

[SilverEagle]

Everything at UNT is self-inflicted. There's nothing that inherently keeps us from at least being competitive in CUSA other than ourselves. TCU was a perennial loser post-WW2 until, in the late 90s, they decided to do something about it. Now they're one of the elite athletics programs in the country. The difference between our two programs isn't 40 miles, it's one administration that decided to put everything they had into athletics vs. another who looks at athletics as a line item in the annual budget.

The line item attitude has been in place from a lot longer ago than the 90's. But just as bad is our administrations decades long inability  to hire the right AD for our unique University.  And the last time the right AD/HC was hired (Hayden Fry) the person responsible for that hire (C.C. Jitter Nolan) was run out of town shortly after Fry left to go to Iowa.

And since then our Administrators have been having nothing but brain farts when it comes time to make good hiring decisions.

Edited October 6, 2015 by SilverEagle

[caseyorourke]

If I might chirp in here.

 

The University of Oregon Ducks spent many years playing the role of doormat and perineal laughingstock of the PAC 8/10 till they started to finally go their winning ways.  Many think the turnaround is due to the financial gifts and influence from a certain donor who is an Oregon alum with extra hellishly deep pockets, Phil Knight.  He has donated millions to Oregon, practically funded their entire sports program, built a world class training facility and provides their all their teams with cutting edge uniforms.

Hopefully someday UNT will produce such a person who can provide your program with the same shot in the arm.

[North Texas Shep]

If I might chirp in here.

 

The University of Oregon Ducks spent many years playing the role of doormat and perineal laughingstock of the PAC 8/10 till they started to finally go their winning ways.  Many think the turnaround is due to the financial gifts and influence from a certain donor who is an Oregon alum with extra hellishly deep pockets, Phil Knight.  He has donated millions to Oregon, practically funded their entire sports program, built a world class training facility and provides their all their teams with cutting edge uniforms.

Hopefully someday UNT will produce such a person who can provide your program with the same shot in the arm.

That helps. We can make it happen without millions pumped in also. The admins just need to make a smart hire. Get an AD who is making things happen on a lower level. Just someone who excites the kids and fan base. It really will be horrible if they do not fire Mac and RV after this season and get someone else in here. 

[SilverEagle]

That helps. We can make it happen without millions pumped in also. The admins just need to make a smart hire. Get an AD who is making things happen on a lower level. Just someone who excites the kids and fan base. It really will be horrible if they do not fire Mac and RV after this season and get someone else in here. 

I've said this for years. Throwing more and more money at the problem is not the ultimate solution. Our current coaching salary schedule is proof of that. We have the highest paid staff of all time at NT and we are looking at the distinct possibility of having our worst season since 07, 08 & 09. If we lose to Portland this week-end we are staring at the very real possibility of a win less season. 

There are lots of up and coming coaches out there who can recruit to North Texas and win here. We just need an AD who is smart enough and insightful enough to get the right coach into the situation. AND at the same time surround him/herself with staff that can "connect" with the alumni out there and get them involved.

We need to get the next young Hayden Fry in here, or hell, even the next Corkey Nelson in here and get things going again. 

[croatan]

ECU fan here. I joined this board when North Texas was invited to Conf USA. I have posted just a few times here.

First,sorry about your season. I really thought North Texas had turned the corner with the bowl game two years ago.

For what it's worth, I think NOrth Texas has all the necessary ingredients to be successful on a regular basis in football.  Big school, location, recruiting,  facilities and a strong core group of fans.

Knowing that I risk sounding like the guy who knows it all (especially being a fan of another team) here are a couple of thoughts from an outsider.

1. Winning   really does begin with a full and complete commitment from the top. ECU has been fortunate to have had leadership from the Chancellor position since the late 60's. Without the top brass support the football program is destined to fail.

2. I don't think North Texas has really found its niche yet. Every school needs something to hang their hat on. From my perspective North Texas has all the key ingredients to be successful but struggles with  brand articulation. I see North Texas in a very different position than the UTEP's of the world. I just do not think you guys have had a leader who has put  the great assists that U NT has together yet. It seems to me UNT approaches football with one hand tied behind its back.

3. Run the Air Raid,or something close to it. This system atracts good athletes and allows the team to compete against better recruiting teams almost overnight. In truth, I am not sure what the North Texas offensive identity is and it will be hard to get recruits without a wide open game. You have to have something to sell to recruits that the can be seen and understood..

4.Find  the right Head Coach. Easier said than done of course. As an outsider though, I have to really question the person who has made the last few hires for you guys. The Head Coach is everything to a College Football team. I know nothing about your AD. I do know this however, if he is the person who has made the last few hires, he needs help from an outside consulting source with the next hire. IMO North Texas is very fertile ground for an up and coming OC who recognizes that UNT already has everything it needs to be a winning program.

5. Last but not least, keep demanding accountability from your school leaders. The only thing that forces these guys to change is the threat of lost revenue from supporters and alumni. Letters will not cut it guys, only the withholding of money will.

 

In short,  as an outsider I see no reason why UNT should not be able to put a strong product on the field more times than not. You have great facilities,  a strong core of supporters, a big school and you are in the heart of great recruiting. To me it boils down to leadership.  I do not believe  think UNT is destined to fail. Put the right people in place and you will see your program bloom.

 

Edited October 6, 2015 by croatan

[Army of Dad]

ECU fan here. I joined this board when North Texas was invited to Conf USA. I have posted just a few times here.

First,sorry about your season. I really thought North Texas had turned the corner with the bowl game two years ago.

For what it's worth, I think NOrth Texas has all the necessary ingredients to be successful on a regular basis in football.  Big school, location, recruiting,  facilities and a strong core group of fans.

Knowing that I risk sounding like the guy who knows it all (especially being a fan of another team) here are a couple of thoughts from an outsider.

1. Winning   really does begin with a full and complete commitment from the top. ECU has been fortunate to have had leadership from the Chancellor position since the late 60's. Without the top brass support the football program is destined to fail.

2. I don't think North Texas has really found its niche yet. Every school needs something to hang their hat on. From my perspective North Texas has all the key ingredients to be successful but struggles with  brand articulation. I see North Texas in a very different position than the UTEP's of the world. I just do not think you guys have had a leader who has put  the great assists that U NT has together yet. It seems to me UNT approaches football with one hand tied behind its back.

3. Run the Air Raid,or something close to it. This system atracts good athletes and allows the team to compete against better recruiting teams almost overnight. In truth, I am not sure what the North Texas offensive identity is and it will be hard to get recruits without a wide open game. You have to have something to sell to recruits that the can be seen and understood..

4.Find  the right Head Coach. Easier said than done of course. As an outsider though, I have to really question the person who has made the last few hires for you guys. The Head Coach is everything to a College Football team. I know nothing about your AD. I do know this however, if he is the person who has made the last few hires, he needs help from an outside consulting source with the next hire. IMO North Texas is very fertile ground for an up and coming OC who recognizes that UNT already has everything it needs to be a winning program.

5. Last but not least, keep demanding accountability from your school leaders. The only thing that forces these guys to change is the threat of lost revenue from supporters and alumni. Letters will not cut it guys, only the withholding of money will.

 

In short,  as an outsider I see no reason why UNT should not be able to put a strong product on the field more times than not. You have great facilities,  a strong core of supporters, a big school and you are in the heart of great recruiting. To me it boils down to leadership.  I do not believe  think UNT is destined to fail. Put the right people in place and you will see your program bloom.

 

Do you have any experience in athletic administration?

We hope to have an opening here in the near future and could use quality candidates with a vision of success...

[oldguystudent]

I do know this however, if he is the person who has made the last few hires, he needs help from an outside consulting source with the next hire.

 

I could be wrong, but I think we have used consultants in our hiring.  Expensive consultants.  Consultants who take the money, take a dump on UNT because they must know there's no repercussions for doing so, and run like hell.

Here's what I'm struggling with personally right now.  September, 2011.  I walk up to the Apogee parking lot, and I see the completed stadium for the first time.  I've never been inside.  This thing is impressive.  I mean, it looks like a REAL program lives here.  I remark that it is one hell of a stadium for what has proven to be the worst team in the nation for the three years I've been aware of the program.  

The comment in response was, "We didn't build it for where we are.  We built it for where we want to be."

It's four years later.  I'm not sure the car's even left the garage, let alone approached its final destination.  I feel like a restless kid hyped up on coach speak sugar pops sitting in the back seat, hitting my big sister, screaming, "Are we there yet?  Are we there yet? Are we there yet?  I gotta go pee!"

[UNT90]

ECU fan here. I joined this board when North Texas was invited to Conf USA. I have posted just a few times here.

First,sorry about your season. I really thought North Texas had turned the corner with the bowl game two years ago.

For what it's worth, I think NOrth Texas has all the necessary ingredients to be successful on a regular basis in football.  Big school, location, recruiting,  facilities and a strong core group of fans.

Knowing that I risk sounding like the guy who knows it all (especially being a fan of another team) here are a couple of thoughts from an outsider.

1. Winning   really does begin with a full and complete commitment from the top. ECU has been fortunate to have had leadership from the Chancellor position since the late 60's. Without the top brass support the football program is destined to fail.

2. I don't think North Texas has really found its niche yet. Every school needs something to hang their hat on. From my perspective North Texas has all the key ingredients to be successful but struggles with  brand articulation. I see North Texas in a very different position than the UTEP's of the world. I just do not think you guys have had a leader who has put  the great assists that U NT has together yet. It seems to me UNT approaches football with one hand tied behind its back.

3. Run the Air Raid,or something close to it. This system atracts good athletes and allows the team to compete against better recruiting teams almost overnight. In truth, I am not sure what the North Texas offensive identity is and it will be hard to get recruits without a wide open game. You have to have something to sell to recruits that the can be seen and understood..

4.Find  the right Head Coach. Easier said than done of course. As an outsider though, I have to really question the person who has made the last few hires for you guys. The Head Coach is everything to a College Football team. I know nothing about your AD. I do know this however, if he is the person who has made the last few hires, he needs help from an outside consulting source with the next hire. IMO North Texas is very fertile ground for an up and coming OC who recognizes that UNT already has everything it needs to be a winning program.

5. Last but not least, keep demanding accountability from your school leaders. The only thing that forces these guys to change is the threat of lost revenue from supporters and alumni. Letters will not cut it guys, only the withholding of money will.

 

In short,  as an outsider I see no reason why UNT should not be able to put a strong product on the field more times than not. You have great facilities,  a strong core of supporters, a big school and you are in the heart of great recruiting. To me it boils down to leadership.  I do not believe  think UNT is destined to fail. Put the right people in place and you will see your program bloom.

 

For someone who knows so little about us, you hit the nail on the head. 

There are 17 people who need to read your post.

Edited October 6, 2015 by UNT90

[MeanGreenHoops]

 

5. Last but not least, keep demanding accountability from your school leaders. The only thing that forces these guys to change is the threat of lost revenue from supporters and alumni. Letters will not cut it guys, only the withholding of money will.

 

This point caught my attention. There are not a lot of financial supporters of this program since there are apparently about 4K season ticket holders and 1,500? or so Mean Green Club Members. What/how does this group, many of which are on here, make a statement and demand this. I'd actually prefer to do it without withholding money, but if that's really what it takes, it needs to be more than a gradual thing which it seems is what's happening yet no changes.

[Cerebus]

Everything at UNT is self-inflicted. There's nothing that inherently keeps us from at least being competitive in CUSA other than ourselves. TCU was a perennial loser post-WW2 until, in the late 90s, they decided to do something about it. Now they're one of the elite athletics programs in the country. The difference between our two programs isn't 40 miles, it's one administration that decided to put everything they had into athletics vs. another who looks at athletics as a line item in the annual budget.

You absolutely nailed the problem.  When I stepped foot onto campus in the 96, TCU and UNT where more or less identical situations when it came to athletics.  TCU was a little ahead of us solely based on the faded SWC glimmer.  Since then they have skyrocketed so far past us they are just a faint dot on the horizon.  It all came down to leadership.

Chancellor:

TCU's Boschini didn't kick off the athletics surge, but he continued it.  He has repeatedly talked about the importance of athletics.  He personally did a lot of fundraising for athletics.  Lee Jackson has been our chancellor longer than Boschini has been at TCU.  Have you ever heard him pay more than lip service to athletics?  He's done that precious few times.  Instead he has been involved in one Dallas boondoggle after another.  Notice they have all been Dallas, since he can apparently barely stand to step foot in Denton.  He disliked it so much he moved the system administration down to Dallas, where he prefers to be. 

 

Board of Regents

Half the UNT Regents are alumni of other schools.  Why the hell would they care about athletics?   TCU's BoT is almost exclusively TCU alumni.

 

Athletic Director 

Do I really have to type anything here?

 

 

Edited October 6, 2015 by Cerebus

[GRN-WHT]

 The only thing that forces these guys to change is the threat of lost revenue from supporters and alumni. Letters will not cut it guys, only the withholding of money will

 

 100% agree, and that's what I've done since the aftermath of Benford's first year.

 I'd actually prefer to do it without withholding money, but if that's really what it takes, it needs to be more than a gradual thing which it seems is what's happening yet no changes.

Just redirect your money to a different department within the university. As long a fundraising is a measure of RV's job performance, I will not be donating or buying season tickets until he's gone.

 

[Rudy]

 ECU has been fortunate to have had leadership from the Chancellor position since the late 60's. Without the top brass support the football program is destined to fail.

May I introduce you to our chancellor, Lee Jackson. 

[SilverEagle]

I could be wrong, but I think we have used consultants in our hiring.  Expensive consultants.  Consultants who take the money, take a dump on UNT because they must know there's no repercussions for doing so, and run like hell.

No you are not wrong. Consultants have no more of an idea how to recommend a coach for North Texas than Craig Helwig knew how to be the AD here. We even had Gene Stallings come and consult with us as well, but I don't think he had a clue either. Either that or he did have a clue and the administration didn't choose to pay attention to his recommendations. Another of our cultural faults.

Around the time we hired Gene Stallings to consult with us, we SHOULD have asked Hayden Fry instead to give us his unvarnished assessment and recommendations as to how we should move forward. But his answer might have involved removing administrators who were still at North Texas and who had been obstructionist to the athletic department back when he was there.

Edited October 6, 2015 by SilverEagle