Nickname came first at North Texas? 'Mean Joe' Greene or Mean Green?

[Harry]

LEWISVILLE, Texas — Here are a few theories as to the origin of “Mean Joe” Greene’s nickname.

There’s the story of a middle-school nemesis named “Sleepy,” who once stole the five dollars Greene’s mother had left on the television set to pay the insurance fees her son needed to play on the school’s football team.

“I popped him, knocked him down,” Greene said. “That ended it. He didn’t bother me anymore, and no one else did it. I ended up playing catch-up. I guess I caught him. So I ended up having the reputation as a bully for a while.”

There’s the reputation that girls from his hometown of Temple, Texas, brought along to North Texas in 1966, when Greene joined the football team as an imposing defensive lineman.

TWO WEEKS IN TEXAS: The series so far

“They knew me,” Greene said, “and their explanation of Joe was, ‘Oh, he’s a real nice guy, but he’s mean.’ ”

read more:  http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/08/mean-green-mean-joe-green-nickname-origins

Edited August 15, 2015 by Harry

[FirefightnRick]

No idea what they called him in grade school.  But at North Texas he was called "Big Joe", and he played on the Mean Green defense.

 

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

Per a 1966 Randy Galloway Dallas Newspaper report on the Mean Green.

 

 

 

Big Joe was never referred to as "Mean" Joe Green in print until after he started to shine in Pittsburgh years later.  

 

Rick

Edited August 15, 2015 by FirefightnRick

[SilverEagle]

Now, now Rick. Putting up facts (that have a date attached) only confuses, I'm sorry, annoys people that want to believe the simpler story......especially sports "talking (yet empty) heads" , not to mention current SID's at North Texas.....................

[DeepGreen]

I was there. Joe Green played on NTSU's Mean Green Defense. Whether "Mean" Joe Green's name came from it, I can't recall for sure. Probably came when he started playing for the Steelers.

[GrandGreen]

I was there. Joe Green played on NTSU's Mean Green Defense. Whether "Mean" Joe Green's name came from it, I can't recall for sure. Probably came when he started playing for the Steelers.

 Mean Green was the name of the defense.  It was fashionable in those days to have a named defense such as LSU Chinese Bandits.  It is entirely possible that the Pittsburgh Steelers were aware of the nickname and anointed Joe Greene with it.   Pittsburgh did have two other NT players as major parts of the team: Beatty and Shanklin, so I am sure they were very knowledgeable about NT.   

[All About UNT]

 Mean Green was the name of the defense.  It was fashionable in those days to have a named defense such as LSU Chinese Bandits.  It is entirely possible that the Pittsburgh Steelers were aware of the nickname and anointed Joe Greene with it.   Pittsburgh did have two other NT players as major parts of the team: Beatty and Shanklin, so I am sure they were very knowledgeable about NT.   

Doesn't get much more racist than that

Edited August 15, 2015 by All About UNT

[SilverEagle]

Doesn't get much more racist than that

 

 

 

AND it's a tradition with their Band as well.......

 

https://youtu.be/Ic7FLzC6FTM

Imagine that, a College Band keeping a tradition.........

[rws69]

In the 1968 yearbook, covering the 1967 season, "They produced all of this, and they produced a name, the "Mean Green." Whether it was just a name or perhaps a following, it was one by which they were known and respected. The North Texas Green of 1967 was indeed Mean." There is no reference to Joe Greene in that article. 

But in the '69 Yucca, covering the '68 season, a whole page a dedicated to Joe Greene as he became the first All American from North Texas. One paragraph in the middle of that page reads as follows:

"Greene, who is responsible for the Eagles' now famous name of Mean Green, has spent his three varsity years at NT playing defensive tackle, a position from which he has terrified and demoralized opposing quarterbacks week after week." Interestingly, it went on mention that he played linebacker and offensive tackle in high school and as a freshman at NT.

Since there is no linkage of Mean Green to Joe Greene in the '68 yearbook, I question the accuracy of the implied linkage in the '69 yearbook. In the '67 yearbook, covering the '66 season, Joe Greene was pictured as one of seven all-conference players, but there was no mention of Mean Green. One thing we know - that nickname game during the 1967 season when they were MVC champions.

 

[SilverEagle]

I was there. Joe Green played on NTSU's Mean Green Defense. Whether "Mean" Joe Green's name came from it, I can't recall for sure. Probably came when he started playing for the Steelers.

I was going to homecoming games during that time with my HS band. I don't remember Joe Greene in 66. But then, I was too busy checking out the chicks from other bands that were around us in the stands, and watching the John Love show. HIM I remember. 

 

In the 1968 yearbook, covering the 1967 season, "They produced all of this, and they produced a name, the "Mean Green." Whether it was just a name or perhaps a following, it was one by which they were known and respected. The North Texas Green of 1967 was indeed Mean." There is no reference to Joe Greene in that article. 

But in the '69 Yucca, covering the '68 season, a whole page a dedicated to Joe Greene as he became the first All American from North Texas. One paragraph in the middle of that page reads as follows:

"Greene, who is responsible for the Eagles' now famous name of Mean Green, has spent his three varsity years at NT playing defensive tackle, a position from which he has terrified and demoralized opposing quarterbacks week after week." Interestingly, it went on mention that he played linebacker and offensive tackle in high school and as a freshman at NT.

Since there is no linkage of Mean Green to Joe Greene in the '68 yearbook, I question the accuracy of the implied linkage in the '69 yearbook. In the '67 yearbook, covering the '66 season, Joe Greene was pictured as one of seven all-conference players, but there was no mention of Mean Green. One thing we know - that nickname game during the 1967 season when they were MVC champions.

 

I'll take the word of a professional journalist, who did his background work for his story three years before that yearbook contributor.

Edited August 15, 2015 by SilverEagle

[DeepGreen]

Doesn't get much more racist than that

and did you know, during the same time in LSU football, to go along with the Chinese Bandits, they also had the WHITE TEAM, and the GO TEAM.  Platoon football at its finest.

[KRAM1]

 

 Mean Green was the name of the defense.  It was fashionable in those days to have a named defense such as LSU Chinese Bandits.  It is entirely possible that the Pittsburgh Steelers were aware of the nickname and anointed Joe Greene with it.   Pittsburgh did have two other NT players as major parts of the team: Beatty and Shanklin, so I am sure they were very knowledgeable about NT.   

If I recall correctly...LSU's "Chinese Bandits" we're not the starting defensive units, but rather the third team...given that name due to their spirited play in practice and in games when rotated in by Coach Paul Dietzel.  I believe the name originated in the late 1950's.  It was actually an honor to play on that unit.  The third team LSU defense at that time had plenty of players that would probably start for other teams.  Had something to do with rules at the time not allowing for two platoon football at the time it originated. The "Chinese Bandits" we're comprised of a lot of very fast players....running backs, defensive backs, linebackers, etc.

the name came from the then popular comic strip "Terry and the Pirates".  Terry always seemed to be fighting off the "Chinese bandits".

Well, that's about as far as my memory goes.  I recall watching LSU and the Chinese Bandits play an annual game against Texas A&M as a kid.  Always hated it when that series ended.  Always thought it was a natural rivalry sort of game.

Edited August 15, 2015 by KRAM1

[FirefightnRick]

The 2014  Monday Night Football game when Pittsburgh retired Greene's jersey ESPN showed two pages from the Pittsburgh paper reporting on and "criticizing" the organization's move to draft an unknown Joe Greene with their first pick.  No one had ever heard of him and no where in the paper is he referenced as "Mean" Joe Greene.

 

Rick

Edited August 15, 2015 by FirefightnRick

[All About UNT]

http://selvedgeyard.com/2011/02/06/chuck-noll-and-the-steel-curtain-fans-reaction-whos-joe-greene/

 

 

[GrandGreen]

If I recall correctly...LSU's "Chinese Bandits" we're not the starting defensive units, but rather the third team...given that name due to their spirited play in practice and in games when rotated in by Coach Paul Dietzel.  I believe the name originated in the late 1950's.  It was actually an honor to play on that unit.  The third team LSU defense at that time had plenty of players that would probably start for other teams.  Had something to do with rules at the time not allowing for two platoon football at the time it originated. The "Chinese Bandits" we're comprised of a lot of very fast players....running backs, defensive backs, linebackers, etc.

the name came from the then popular comic strip "Terry and the Pirates".  Terry always seemed to be fighting off the "Chinese bandits".

Well, that's about as far as my memory goes.  I recall watching LSU and the Chinese Bandits play an annual game against Texas A&M as a kid.  Always hated it when that series ended.  Always thought it was a natural rivalry sort of game.

You are probably right, I just remember the name and it was common to name the defensive unit.  

[TheWestie]

From the 1967 Yucca: Joe Greene wearing #76!

[JesseMartin]

Why are we even debating it?  The fact is that the name started before Joe, but with his rise, everyone later attributed it to him even though the name was used for the defense at least a year or two before anyone identified it with Joe as well.

So the LEGEND OF JOE GREENE is what made the "Mean Green" moniker seem to take on a much larger meaning...because really, it was thrown around a little in a newspaper article and among a few involved people, but didn't really pick up steam until Joe became better known and confused people attributed it to him.  So did the name predate Joe?  Yes.  But did his rise to stardom likely contribute to its long-term staying power?  There's no way to know for sure, as we don't have access to some alternate universe where he didn't become an NFL superstar (and therefore, the capacity to compare it to our own reality), but more than likely, yes.

So in a sense, both are *probably* correct.  The name was used a couple of times in limited circles and then in one newspaper article, but the confusion attributing it to Joe is probably what led to its prevalence and longevity.

 

Can we all get jiggy with this?

[FirefightnRick]

Why are we even debating it?  

 

There is no debate.

 

Rick

[jdennis82]

Interestingly, I found myself watching the replay of the 2014 homecoming victory over FAU on Fox Sports Atlantic yesterday afternoon (couldn't help myself).

Mean Joe was interviewed about this very topic at halftime and he spoke about the fact that the defensive unit earned the moniker and it was subsequently applied to him  personally after several instances of him "extending the play" after the whistle.

[North Texas Shep]

Interestingly, I found myself watching the replay of the 2014 homecoming victory over FAU on Fox Sports Atlantic yesterday afternoon (couldn't help myself).

Mean Joe was interviewed about this very topic at halftime and he spoke about the fact that the defensive unit earned the moniker and it was subsequently applied to him  personally after several instances of him "extending the play" after the whistle.

I saw that. He straight up says Mean Green wad the defense. In the NFL he got the personal nickname. Sadly, the game against UTEP the next week today the wrong story once again. Get it right or shut your mouth fox sports!

[greenminer]

 

Can we all get jiggy with this?

There is a reason it never seems settled.  Fry wrote it that way in his autobiography.  Here is what Galloway said to me when I relayed that information to him:
 

Of course, Hayden was not even close to Denton scene at that time...he was going on what happened after Joe became a huge NFL star, and actually his success was good for North Texas, so feeding off the Mean Green thing was not a bad P.R. thing, and Hayden didn't mind milking that and I don't blame him...but Fred is still alive, and I think living in Denton area....I don't have a number, wish I did...anyway, that DMN story tells the whole story....we really kind of down played NTSU in those days (it was all about SWC for college), and when I got the beat I used to raise hell with my boss, the great Walter Robertson, that this was a damn good team that deserved more attention....I was greatly surprised when he came up with the idea to use all those pixs of the defensive players making "mean" faces....

rg

 

...I was not aware that Joe Greene spelled it out during a 2014 broadcast.  That should put all of this to rest, but I would not count on it.  The media has proven time and again that they don't care much for doing research on little ol' NTSU.

[MeanGreenTexan]

 

There is a reason it never seems settled.  Fry wrote it that way in his autobiography.  Here is what Galloway said to me when I relayed that information to him:
 

Of course, Hayden was not even close to Denton scene at that time...he was going on what happened after Joe became a huge NFL star, and actually his success was good for North Texas, so feeding off the Mean Green thing was not a bad P.R. thing, and Hayden didn't mind milking that and I don't blame him...but Fred is still alive, and I think living in Denton area....I don't have a number, wish I did...anyway, that DMN story tells the whole story....we really kind of down played NTSU in those days (it was all about SWC for college), and when I got the beat I used to raise hell with my boss, the great Walter Robertson, that this was a damn good team that deserved more attention....I was greatly surprised when he came up with the idea to use all those pixs of the defensive players making "mean" faces....

rg

 

...I was not aware that Joe Greene spelled it out during a 2014 broadcast.  That should put all of this to rest, but I would not count on it.  The media has proven time and again that they don't care much for doing research on little ol' NTSU.

Why would you want to do research to find out that the moniker was there before Joe?

The storyline of the 'small school' team being named after one of the greatest players to ever play the game is just too good.

[FirefightnRick]

I saw that. He straight up says Mean Green wad the defense. In the NFL he got the personal nickname. Sadly, the game against UTEP the next week today the wrong story once again. Get it right or shut your mouth fox sports!

Just my opinion but North Texas  bears a bit of the blame for that.  Just look ack at the basketball game at Ok State for example with the play by play guy spouting off about it and going on and on..  Our people are not getting the word out for reasons I'll spare everyone the pain of reading about,.....again. But just know we could do a much better job than we are currently doing.

 

Rick

[Quoner]

 we could do a much better job than we are currently doing.

Perfect one sentence summary of...basically everything.

[FirefightnRick]

Why would you want to do research to find out that the moniker was there before Joe?

 

 

I can't answer this for everyone else, but for me it was EVERYTIME a certain organhead personality on a local sports radio station would repeat over and over again ...."how much of a sad, spare of a school do you have to be when your only claim to fame is that your mascot is named after a retired pro football player"....

 

 

Rick