12 replies to this topic

[PlummMeanGreen]

My question is will less than $8 million TV revenue per Big East school (if that's what is is) really be worth their having left CUSA and the MWC short term/long term; that is, in light of each school's mens and women's entire varsity sports programs that will be flying cross country 1,000 miles (give/take) for matchups? For SMU, that would probably be money that their wealthy alums would have normally fronted for SMU athletics so for that elite group it would be a welcome windfall to their school which would ultimately save them some big bucks.

And with most of the Big East schools due to their locations will virtually have no regional rivalries for well more than half of their home football schedules which we know from first hand experience can affect a school at the turnstiles. A financial hit at the gate will create another dent in some Big East athletic budgets while their fans stay away in droves due to non-traditional and unfamililar opponents that will be on their conference home schedules. I mean come on now....UCONN/SMU at Ford Stadium?

If CUSA members get close to $2 or $2.5 million per school (which is probably liberal numbers for what we've read thus far); but if each CUSA schools receives that yet in our more regional rivalry environment, does that suffice for what we need to do comparative to Big East schools who could get $8 million (give or take). (I think most of the schools from CUSA/MWC left for the Big East thinking more in line of at least $14-16 million per year truth be told).

Any of you mathmateicians have any ideas on this?
__________________________________________________________

Selected excerpts from the CBS'Sports.com article with the full article listed at the link at bottom of page.

The Big East's best hopes are that ESPN and NBC/Comcast get in a bidding war to drive the price up. But industry sources said network executives wouldn't go beyond "the 60s [million dollars]."
Is it possible those executives are minimizing the Big East's value as part of a multimillion-dollar poker game or that's the actual worth of the league? The Big East is getting ready to find out

A $60 million deal per year (as speculated by CBSSports.com's sources, slightly better than their low end) would be worth $4 million each for the 10 full members; $3 million each to the four football-only members; and $1 million each to the eight non-football members.

Based on a future 14-member football league (in 2015, the Big East adds Navy as a football-only member and has plans to add a 14th school, preferably Air Force or BYU) and an 18-member basketball league, the media rights deal would be worth the following amounts per school annually:
A $130 million deal per year (as speculated by Pilson) would be worth $8.66 million each for the 10 full members; $6.5 million each for the four football-only members (Boise State, San Diego State, Navy and TBA); and $2.16 million each for the eight non-football members


The entire CBS'Sports.com link
http://www.cbssports...of-its-lifetime

Edited by PlummMeanGreen, 24 May 2012 - 05:40 PM.

[shaft]

The Big East pays double what the MWC pays, which is the highest paying mid-major.

[PlummMeanGreen]

2011 TV Revenues Per Conference



http://collegesports...-by-conference/

_____________________________________________________

And this, too.

http://www.sportsbus...ights-Fees.aspx


GMG!

Addendum: I know we all really hope the upcoming CUSA TV rights negotiations go well for us all and maybe even exceed
our greatest expectations for each of our schools, but lest we forget whatever North Texas receives in the CUSA package
will be about 100% improvement than what we ever received from the SBC. It's a start.

Edited by PlummMeanGreen, 24 May 2012 - 10:03 PM.

[Mark Gommesen]

Certainly, a media contract that generates only $4 million a year would not make since for a school like SMU to make the move to the BE. The cost of the move will cost and lost revenues will total over $3 million a year (see below). If the additional costs of joining the new conference exceed a $1 million dollars a year, SMU will have a real problem. Travel expenses will be significantly higher in the new conference. SMU attendance in some sports is likely to fall because with the exception Houston all of there conference competitors are not in the same geographic region. SMU has felt it necessary to pay Big Conference Salaries to renew it's football head coach salary and hire a new basketball coach. The football coach's salary is reported to be $2 million a year and the basketball coach is expected to be even higher.

The reason last year's contract was rejected was the non-football schools were not happy with their share of the revenue, if the total revenues decline in the new contract, expect the non-football schools to demand at bigger slice of the pie or to bolt from the conference.

If as expected the C-USA is able to negotiate a much more lucrative TV contract, some former C-USA may wished they did not jump to so quickly.

 
They are each contractually obligated to pay their annual share of television revenue under Conference USA's dual contracts with Fox Sports Network and CBS Sports for five years and an additional one-time $500,000 fee.
http://articles.orla...ton-banowsky-co

C-USA alone will realize $6.63 million apiece from Memphis, UCF, SMU and Houston when they leave to join the Big East after the 2013 basketball season, according to C-USA assistant commissioner for public affairs Courtney Morrison-Archer.
http://www.herald-di...erger-for-C-USA

2 million entrance fee.

Total cost $9.183 million over a five year period or $1.8366 a year

The current C-USA media contact CUSA
5 years, $35 million, CBS College Sports (through 2016)
5 years, $35 million, Fox (through 2016)
Annual: $14 million*
Average Annual per School: $1.17 million
http://collegesports...-by-conference/
http://www.sportsbus...ights-Fees.aspx

So just to cover the cost of joining BE and loss revenues from the CUSA a team must realize increase in revenue of ($1.17 + $1.8366) = $3.00666**

* Some reports that C-USA contract is worth as a much as $16 million a year. or $1.33 million per school.

** I did not include basketball tournament revenue and other sources for the BE or the C-USA. It is difficult to accurately forecast these amounts because they are determined by unknown factors as number tournament invitations and team performance. However, it is save to assume that these revenues were not significantly higher for the BE than the C-USA.


http://www.cbssports...of-its-lifetime

4 to 8.66 million value of new contract.
 
C-USA should be able vastly improve media contract.

C-USA has added a combination of established and emerging programs. Four of the five schools bring a market size ranked among the top 36 in the country and totaling over two million more TV households than the league held this past year. Now that ODU as committed that wll bring an additional 718,750 households, totally close to three million more TV households. Five of the six schools are in the fastest growing media markets. Four of the six schools are media markets without direct competition from other major Universities or Pro teams.

After realignment the C-USA increase the number of large media markets in markets and dramatically increase the number of television households. The C-USA has position itself for better long-term growth than any other conference. None of the other conferences have any room for growth, they have already saturated their markets. C-USA was clever enough to expand within it's hold geographical foot print, yet add new large media markets like San Antonio, Charlotte, Miami, and Norfolk and secure itself in the DFW market.

The C-USA is located in the fastest geographical region of the country. According to the US Census Bureau, from 2000 to 2010, regional growth was much faster for the South and West (14.3 and 13.8 percent, respectively) than for the Midwest (3.9 percent) and Northeast (3.2 percent).

While expanding, the C-USA avoided media markets dominated by the SEC or the ACC. After realignment, the C-USA loss Memphis and Orlando to the Big East. Although major media markets, the both of these markets were highly competitive. The Tennessee market is relatively small and is being dominated by the University of Tennessee and Vanderbilt both of the SEC. Similarly the Florida market is dominated by the ACC and the SEC.

The C-USA can offered television networks a conference that includes large rapidly growing media markets with a huge number of television households, in the fastest growing region in the country without offering little or no direct competition to the network's existing contracts with any of other large conferences including the SEC, the ACC, The B1G,or the BIG 12.

Edited by Mark Gommesen, 25 May 2012 - 08:52 AM.

[GL2Greatness]

why would the Big East that is adding large media markets as well and that actually has a contract expiring not be able to increase their payout, but the CUSA that just signed a contract in 2011 that goes until 2015 and that is adding teams that have never played D1-A football will suddenly be able to reopen their contract for big new money

you are dreaming if you think the brand new CUSA contract will be opened back up for more money

[PlummMeanGreen]

why would the Big East that is adding large media markets as well and that actually has a contract expiring not be able to increase their payout, but the CUSA that just signed a contract in 2011 that goes until 2015 and that is adding teams that have never played D1-A football will suddenly be able to reopen their contract for big new money you are dreaming if you think the brand new CUSA contract will be opened back up for more money

Seriously, who has any idea what the future has for CUSA TV revenues, but for North Texas anything will be an improvement from what we have had in the SBC.

As far as the Big East is concerned their soap opera'esque instability has to be a matter of concern for whichever TV group would commit Big Time Conference revenues. Too many schools still thinking about leaving the Big East because (among other reasons) they don't seem that excited with their new additions from non-Big East regions of the USA to read comments from their various B.E. message boards.

And then you have the Big East basketball schools which is another story entirely. It's really a potential problem for the football schools and could implode and thwart any semblance of stability for the Big East' future existence.

And then...............you have UCONN which has gone on record with present Big East officials that they, too, would like to leave and will if an opportunity presents itself. How could that make a TV network want to commit serious monies if they don't even know which schools will be in the Big East in 4 years?

Sure I'm biased, but I like the new CUSA's upside with all the new TV markets recently added with some schools in CUSA TV markets with dramatically more constituencies in some cases and truthfully, isn't that what TV advertisers like in today's NCAA? Plus now you have schools in CUSA who really want to be contributing members to this new CUSA venture and won't have one foot in and one foot out in the sweet by and by dreaming for things that just might not materialize or even be a positive longterm.


GMG!

Edited by PlummMeanGreen, 25 May 2012 - 04:05 PM.

[GreenFlag]

Why can't GL2Greatness have a hard on for Western Governors University of Texas instead of us? He could argue the merits of an online degree. It is the Online University for Texas after all.

[Comet7745]

Different reports all over this place on this one. Anywhere between $4-13 million per team per year. Honestly, that sounds like a fair range to be in, and regardless of what some would say here, even the lower estimate is a significant upgrade from what we were making in CUSA. We'll see how this goes, this is the first report to really toss out low-ball figures.

Edited by Comet7745, 25 May 2012 - 03:07 PM.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Different reports all over this place on this one. Anywhere between $4-13 million per team per year. Honestly, that sounds like a fair range to be in, and regardless of what some would say here, even the lower estimate is a significant upgrade from what we were making in CUSA. We'll see how this goes, this is the first report to really toss out low-ball figures.

With all seriousness and no SMU/UNT lagniape or silliness here, but do you have any idea, Comet7745, what SMU would feel their TV revenue needs to be to actually justify sending all their men and women's varsity sports to the east coast for intercollegiate competition? I feel a handful of SMU alums would foot the bill no matter what, but if the TV revenues become so ridiculously low, would it have really been worth leaving CUSA to play non-traditional out of the SW region non-rivals with not as much Game Day interest as you know a more regionalized home schedule would offer the Mustangs?

Quite frankly, a UNT/UConn or Temple or Rutgers, etc, etc, etc, football matchup would be one tough sell to our UNT constituency for an Apogee Stadium Game Day.

We are not going to hold our breath knowing our past histories with each other, but it would be in the best interest for SMU and UNT to play each as often as possible in all sports--both men and women's varsity level sports. We know that attendance would almost never be a problem with such matchups, but it still takes 2 to Tango.


GMG!

Edited by PlummMeanGreen, 25 May 2012 - 04:18 PM.

[foutsrouts]

It seems pretty iffy to me whether or not this move will turn out to be financially worthwhile for smu and Houston, but I suspect their major motivation is in the hope that moving up a peg (or at least a partial peg) will improve their chances of landing a spot in the Big 12 at some point. Of couse they're going to have to quickly win big in the money sports, hope their new conference doesn't fall apart, and regularly fill up their stadiums for there to be much of a chance of this happening. I suspect that is going to be a tall order for SMU in particular. Football only probably would have been their best scenario IMO.

[playoffpush]

It was actually going to be cheaper to for TCU to travel in the Big East then it was in the MWC. I think the travel cost are blown way out of proportion. Most of the Big East schools are located in major metro areas, you can fly into them and have a very short drive relatively easy. CUSA is the same way with the exception of Marshall and Southern Miss. In most cases you are talking about a 2:00 vs 3:00 flight. It's really not that big of a deal, most people on this board are making it a big deal because they want it to be a big deal. In this article it states that the Big East doesn't require schools to compete in individual sports against other Big East members during the regular season. So if SMU or Houston doesn't want to ship their golf team, tennis, or swimming teams to Piscataway, NJ or wherever for regular season matches, they don't have to. I believe they would just have to compete in the conference tournament.

http://espn.go.com/b...s-tcu-expansion

Who knows where college football will be in 5 years, we might not even have conferences. Who knows. I just think if you can move up a rung in status, you do it regardless of the finances but I don't think the financial situation is as dire as people here are making it out to be.

[GrayEagle]

Certainly, a media contract that generates only $4 million a year would not make since for a school like SMU to make the move to the BE. The cost of the move will cost and lost revenues will total over $3 million a year (see below). If the additional costs of joining the new conference exceed a $1 million dollars a year, SMU will have a real problem. Travel expenses will be significantly higher in the new conference. SMU attendance in some sports is likely to fall because with the exception Houston all of there conference competitors are not in the same geographic region. SMU has felt it necessary to pay Big Conference Salaries to renew it's football head coach salary and hire a new basketball coach. The football coach's salary is reported to be $2 million a year and the basketball coach is expected to be even higher.

The reason last year's contract was rejected was the non-football schools were not happy with their share of the revenue, if the total revenues decline in the new contract, expect the non-football schools to demand at bigger slice of the pie or to bolt from the conference.

If as expected the C-USA is able to negotiate a much more lucrative TV contract, some former C-USA may wished they did not jump to so quickly.

 
They are each contractually obligated to pay their annual share of television revenue under Conference USA's dual contracts with Fox Sports Network and CBS Sports for five years and an additional one-time $500,000 fee.
http://articles.orla...ton-banowsky-co

C-USA alone will realize $6.63 million apiece from Memphis, UCF, SMU and Houston when they leave to join the Big East after the 2013 basketball season, according to C-USA assistant commissioner for public affairs Courtney Morrison-Archer.
http://www.herald-di...erger-for-C-USA

2 million entrance fee.

Total cost $9.183 million over a five year period or $1.8366 a year

The current C-USA media contact CUSA
5 years, $35 million, CBS College Sports (through 2016)
5 years, $35 million, Fox (through 2016)
Annual: $14 million*
Average Annual per School: $1.17 million
http://collegesports...-by-conference/
http://www.sportsbus...ights-Fees.aspx

So just to cover the cost of joining BE and loss revenues from the CUSA a team must realize increase in revenue of ($1.17 + $1.8366) = $3.00666**

* Some reports that C-USA contract is worth as a much as $16 million a year. or $1.33 million per school.

** I did not include basketball tournament revenue and other sources for the BE or the C-USA. It is difficult to accurately forecast these amounts because they are determined by unknown factors as number tournament invitations and team performance. However, it is save to assume that these revenues were not significantly higher for the BE than the C-USA.


http://www.cbssports...of-its-lifetime

4 to 8.66 million value of new contract.
 
C-USA should be able vastly improve media contract.

C-USA has added a combination of established and emerging programs. Four of the five schools bring a market size ranked among the top 36 in the country and totaling over two million more TV households than the league held this past year. Now that ODU as committed that wll bring an additional 718,750 households, totally close to three million more TV households. Five of the six schools are in the fastest growing media markets. Four of the six schools are media markets without direct competition from other major Universities or Pro teams.

After realignment the C-USA increase the number of large media markets in markets and dramatically increase the number of television households. The C-USA has position itself for better long-term growth than any other conference. None of the other conferences have any room for growth, they have already saturated their markets. C-USA was clever enough to expand within it's hold geographical foot print, yet add new large media markets like San Antonio, Charlotte, Miami, and Norfolk and secure itself in the DFW market.

The C-USA is located in the fastest geographical region of the country. According to the US Census Bureau, from 2000 to 2010, regional growth was much faster for the South and West (14.3 and 13.8 percent, respectively) than for the Midwest (3.9 percent) and Northeast (3.2 percent).

While expanding, the C-USA avoided media markets dominated by the SEC or the ACC. After realignment, the C-USA loss Memphis and Orlando to the Big East. Although major media markets, the both of these markets were highly competitive. The Tennessee market is relatively small and is being dominated by the University of Tennessee and Vanderbilt both of the SEC. Similarly the Florida market is dominated by the ACC and the SEC.

The C-USA can offered television networks a conference that includes large rapidly growing media markets with a huge number of television households, in the fastest growing region in the country without offering little or no direct competition to the network's existing contracts with any of other large conferences including the SEC, the ACC, The B1G,or the BIG 12.

Good homework and info. CUSA will add approximately 2.8 million sets with the changes in membership. I did read somewhere that the Fox contract was $46 million for five years which might account for the difference that you noted.

Usually contracts are renegotiated when there are major changes to the structure of the original contract. In this case I believe that the difference in the number and makeup of the conference warrants rethinking. The losses of Orlando and Memphis are more than offset by the additions of Miami, Charlotte, San Antonio and Norfolk. That's a lot of advertising dollars for the networks.

[Green Mean]

Quite frankly, a UNT/UConn or Temple or Rutgers, etc, etc, etc, football matchup would be one tough sell to our UNT constituency for an Apogee Stadium Game Day.

It would be a tough sell if we're winning 1-3 games a year(no matter the conference we are in) but if we're respectable and/or a winning program I think playing those schools would be a benefit. The average person out there generally know who is UConn, Temple and Rutgers. They're on TV and are in a "BCS" conference at the moment. If anything I think playing those schools could boost the perception from our own alums and the casual CFB fan.