30 replies to this topic

[shaft]

It seems like any time any school and Texas does anything someone starts a lame "are they passing us by thread."

Can we all agree getting our sloppy seconds in an Olympic sports conference is not passing anyone by.
The SBC didn't want the Mavericks the first go around.

But to be fair UTA has one thing going for it. Their new BB arena let's them host events like this:

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

But to be fair UTA has one thing going for it. Their new BB arena let's them host events like this:

Are you saying they are passing us by?

[LakeTravis]

Ummm, wow.
No Thanks.
Congrats UTA, enjoy that "wrestling"

Edited by LakeTravis, 24 May 2012 - 08:49 AM.

[DallasGreen]

It seems like any time any school and Texas does anything someone starts a lame "are they passing us by thread."

Can we all agree getting our sloppy seconds in an Olympic sports conference is not passing anyone by.
The SBC didn't want the Mavericks the first go around.

But to be fair UTA has one thing going for it. Their new BB arena let's them host events like this:

Brings a whole new ring to UTA (Unbelievably Tainted Athletics). Hopefully no more basketball embarassments playing the former Grubbs Vocational College.

[golfingomez]

The SBC passing CUSA?

question, no info.

[Aquila_Viridis]

Open your eyes, Neo, and see the Matrix for what it truly is. In a constrained economy, the UT System must make choices about where it can allocate resources. Our poor cousin Texas State is in the backyard of the University of Central Texas (i.e. UT Austin). Thus you see dramatic developments for UTSA. When the economy opens up, the system will leverage its vast resources more liberally, and you will see all kinds of exciting developments for old UTA. They will not pass us by, but they will be there to dilute us in important ways.

I have personally observed the effect on Texas State. I have a graduating senior at the very challenging Westlake HS here in Austin. The 'top 10%' practice has kept many excellent students but who are in the middle of the class at this school, out of the UCT and even A&M. Most do not want to go to Tech or Houston or pay for private school, so in droves they are going down to UTSA. Would they even consider Texas State? No. Unfortunately my student has elected to attend at the capital of the Evil Empire. (Nothing would stop the Matrix from incorporating other elements of human pop culture so lay off.) It greatly pains me to send money there but that is his decision. Ironically I see this as a tactic of rebellion.

On a nearly unrelated note, there were several positive mentions of UNT at the Senior awards ceremony last night. You will be aghast to know however, that one older gentleman did refer to us as North Texas State.

[Rudy]

Open your eyes, Neo, and see the Matrix for what it truly is.

Whoa.

[shaft]

Are you saying they are passing us by?

To be fair they are hosting a wrestling Pay Per View and the last pro-wrestling event at the Super Pit was a crappy house show, but at least our event was WWE and theirs is TNA

[GL2Greatness]

Open your eyes, Neo, and see the Matrix for what it truly is. In a constrained economy, the UT System must make choices about where it can allocate resources. Our poor cousin Texas State is in the backyard of the University of Central Texas (i.e. UT Austin). Thus you see dramatic developments for UTSA. When the economy opens up, the system will leverage its vast resources more liberally, and you will see all kinds of exciting developments for old UTA. They will not pass us by, but they will be there to dilute us in important ways.

I have personally observed the effect on Texas State. I have a graduating senior at the very challenging Westlake HS here in Austin. The 'top 10%' practice has kept many excellent students but who are in the middle of the class at this school, out of the UCT and even A&M. Most do not want to go to Tech or Houston or pay for private school, so in droves they are going down to UTSA. Would they even consider Texas State? No. Unfortunately my student has elected to attend at the capital of the Evil Empire. (Nothing would stop the Matrix from incorporating other elements of human pop culture so lay off.) It greatly pains me to send money there but that is his decision. Ironically I see this as a tactic of rebellion.

On a nearly unrelated note, there were several positive mentions of UNT at the Senior awards ceremony last night. You will be aghast to know however, that one older gentleman did refer to us as North Texas State.

the UT System does not make moves based on what happens at other universities like TxState.....Academics is not a competition similar to athletics at all and if UT was so concerned about TxState then they would have prevented them from adding enough Doctoral programs to become an emerging research university and they would have started the Edwards Aquifer research center and the like

TxState draws the largest (by far) % of their students from the Austin metro area so Westlake students might not be TxState, but a large number of other Austin area students are

UTSA had 352 students in the 2011 cohort from Travis County while TxState had 437 (and growing every year for the last few years while UTSA is down from 2007 and 2008) so while UTSA might be the new hot place for Westlake grads (for what reason I would not know other than the transfer program) it looks as though TxState is still more popular with the Travis County freshman class

I would imagine the % of college bound students that were from a school like Westlake that could not get into Texas or TAMU and could not afford privvate school and that did not want to consider Tech or TxState is extremely small compared to the total number of college bound seniors from a school like Westlake and that is ignoring students going to OU, OkState, Arkansas and other state schools that heavily recruit students from Texas

Westlake was not one of the top 10 feeder schools for UTSA as well in any recent year

[bstnsportsfan3]

they are totally passing us by....when the hell have we ever had slammiversary????

[shaft]

they are totally passing us by....when the hell have we ever had slammiversary????

We do get to lay claim to Stone Cold Steve Austin and Kevin Von Eric

[Aquila_Viridis]

UTSA had 352 students in the 2011 cohort from Travis County while TxState had 437 (and growing every year for the last few years while UTSA is down from 2007 and 2008) so while UTSA might be the new hot place for Westlake grads (for what reason I would not know other than the transfer program) it looks as though TxState is still more popular with the Travis County freshman class

No question that Texas State is getting people there. They always will. But for a certain caliber of students there IS competition between institutions, and from what I can observe directly, UTSA is beating Texas State in that competition. If it is the transfer opportunity, then - back to the original point - that is an opportunity that UTA offers also. To the extent that UTA begins to offer other amenities then UNT could see an impact in the caliber of students it could attract. My point is that the UT System uses these subsidiary campuses to make such gains which come directly at the expense of institutions such as Texas State and UNT. These can be either in the athletic realm or the academic, and I believe that for many reasons, gains in either one of those realms results in gains in the other.

[GL2Greatness]

No question that Texas State is getting people there. They always will. But for a certain caliber of students there IS competition between institutions, and from what I can observe directly, UTSA is beating Texas State in that competition. If it is the transfer opportunity, then - back to the original point - that is an opportunity that UTA offers also. To the extent that UTA begins to offer other amenities then UNT could see an impact in the caliber of students it could attract. My point is that the UT System uses these subsidiary campuses to make such gains which come directly at the expense of institutions such as Texas State and UNT. These can be either in the athletic realm or the academic, and I believe that for many reasons, gains in either one of those realms results in gains in the other.

University of North Texas 27,779 27,427 28,283 28,282 16.4% 16.5% 17.7% 18.7%
Texas State University-San Marcos 24,810 26,001 27,448 28,959 12.4% 12.9% 13.2% 11.7%
Texas Tech University 23,107 24,311 25,426 26,008 19.4% 17.0% 19.3% 20.3%
University of Houston 27,642 28,074 29,386 30,470 15.9% 17.6% 18.6% 27.9%
The University of Texas at Arlington 18,399 20,642 24,100 24,258 18.1% 22.7% 23.9% 23.5%
The University of Texas at El Paso 16,976 17,202 18,158 18,975 13.4% 14.8% 14.0% 15.0%
The University of Texas at Dallas 9,202 9,634 10,330 11,409 29.7% 27.8% 28.9% 29.3%
The University of Texas at San Antonio 24,648 25,006 25,794 26,268 8.5% 8.2% 10.4% 12.3%

those are the undergrad enrollments from 2008-20011 and the % of students in the top 10% of their HS class from the same time period

UTSA is growing their numbers steadily, but at the same time they are not growing their undergrad enrollment at the same pace as TxState or UTA or others and since top 10% students have a 100% choice (with the exception of UT Austin right now) and there are a limited number of them and they are not related to total enrollment of a university in particular the % comparison is really not that meaningful what is more meaningful is who pulls in the largest total number of those students...true UTSA has grown their total number as well, but I would imagine the vast majority of those are from the SA metro area since 10 out of 10 of the top feeder schools for UTSA are SA metro schools while TxState had 3 Austin HSs, Georgetown, San Marcos, Round Rock, two in NB, Cibolo, and Hays (Buda) as their top 10 feeders

for transfers (in order) TxState had ACC, Alamo CC, Blinn, LonsStar CC, UTSA (102 students), Tarrant, DCCCD, Wharton, San Jacinto, and HCC while UTSA had for top feeders for transfers SAC, Northwest Vista, ACC, Palo Alto, St. Phillips, LoneStar, Blinn, Southwest Texas JC, TxState (39), and Laredo CC

so TxState is growing enrollment faster and keeping higher #s of top% ers and they are keeping a broad base of students especially coming out of the Austin metro area and transfers out of Austin, SA, Houston and the DFW area

in 2009 and 2010 the % in the top 25% of HS class was UTA with 60/61, UTD 53/57, Tech 51/52, TxState 51/52 North Texas 49/51, UTSA 36/40, UH 38/36, UTEP 35/35

but again those numbers are not a full comparison until looked at with enrollment growth as well

from 09-10 NT added 856, TxState 1447, Tech 1115, UH 1312, UTA 3476, UTEP 956, UTD 696, and UTSA 788 so most schools were holding or growing their % in the top 25% while adding more total students and % in the top 25% is one of the metrics for NRUF funding

UTSA and TxState have the lowest % of graduate to undergrads of the emerging research universities, but UTSA has the issue of needing to increase their freshman class metric while maintaining enrollment while TxState needs to increase restricted research dollars....TxState is adding programs in engineering and adding PhD programs specifically in engineering as well which will help research and those undergrads in those same programs will probably be better prepared as well while UTSA is already at a high level of PhD programs and engineering programs and needing to elevate their freshman class metrics

so TxState has added programs that will attract better prepared freshman and attract research dollars and they are growing faster as well while UTSA is not adding those types of programs and still needing to boost freshman class metrics in a state that mainly funds higher education based on enrollment so UTSA could well find themselves with stagnant enrollment growth (and stagnant funding levels) while TxState can maintain some growth if only slightly and keep their overall total dollar funding growing

UTA as well is at 15% graduate students now and they are above the 50% mark for top 25% of high school class so they can hold steady with what they are doing UTD is at 26% graduate students and adding undergrad engineering majors as well so they can grow enrollmen, keep a high freshman class metric, and continue on as they are now

UH is at 17% graduate students, but they did not use the freshman class metric to qualify for NRUF funding they used faculty quality (a metric that only UH and UTD met and that the others have little chance of meeting in the near or medium term future) so UH can afford to raise freshman metrics as they have recently and will again, but they don't have to do so at the expense of total enrollment and formula funding so they can still let in more "individual review" students

really of all the ones looking to use freshman class as a metric for NRUF UTSA and UTEP are in the worst shape and UTSA more so than UTEP because UTEP has a higher % of grad students now and they do more restricted research and they have a chance to possibly use endowment as a metric for NRUF funding down the road VS freshman class and TxState has the low graduate student %, but they have the freshman class metrics now and they can maintain that while growing enrollment and research dollars by having the ability to add programs that attract dollars and better prepared freshman students

I am not trying to tear UTSA down at all, but the point is that TxState does well attracting students from the Austin area, the SA area, and the Houston area and while TxState has restricted research to address down the road they have freshman class under control for the most part and they have a much better ability to control that than UTSA that is moving from a basically open enrollment while still needing to maintain total enrollment numbers and state formula funding and I don't think they will be all that successful if they are targeting potential TxState/Austin HS students they would probably be better served looking towards south Texas and keeping more top students from the SA area at home

[MeanGreenHoops]

University of North Texas 27,779 27,427 28,283 28,282 16.4% 16.5% 17.7% 18.7%
Texas State University-San Marcos 24,810 26,001 27,448 28,959 12.4% 12.9% 13.2% 11.7%
Texas Tech University 23,107 24,311 25,426 26,008 19.4% 17.0% 19.3% 20.3%
University of Houston 27,642 28,074 29,386 30,470 15.9% 17.6% 18.6% 27.9%
The University of Texas at Arlington 18,399 20,642 24,100 24,258 18.1% 22.7% 23.9% 23.5%
The University of Texas at El Paso 16,976 17,202 18,158 18,975 13.4% 14.8% 14.0% 15.0%
The University of Texas at Dallas 9,202 9,634 10,330 11,409 29.7% 27.8% 28.9% 29.3%
The University of Texas at San Antonio 24,648 25,006 25,794 26,268 8.5% 8.2% 10.4% 12.3%

those are the undergrad enrollments from 2008-20011 and the % of students in the top 10% of their HS class from the same time period

UTSA is growing their numbers steadily, but at the same time they are not growing their undergrad enrollment at the same pace as TxState or UTA or others and since top 10% students have a 100% choice (with the exception of UT Austin right now) and there are a limited number of them and they are not related to total enrollment of a university in particular the % comparison is really not that meaningful what is more meaningful is who pulls in the largest total number of those students...true UTSA has grown their total number as well, but I would imagine the vast majority of those are from the SA metro area since 10 out of 10 of the top feeder schools for UTSA are SA metro schools while TxState had 3 Austin HSs, Georgetown, San Marcos, Round Rock, two in NB, Cibolo, and Hays (Buda) as their top 10 feeders

for transfers (in order) TxState had ACC, Alamo CC, Blinn, LonsStar CC, UTSA (102 students), Tarrant, DCCCD, Wharton, San Jacinto, and HCC while UTSA had for top feeders for transfers SAC, Northwest Vista, ACC, Palo Alto, St. Phillips, LoneStar, Blinn, Southwest Texas JC, TxState (39), and Laredo CC

so TxState is growing enrollment faster and keeping higher #s of top% ers and they are keeping a broad base of students especially coming out of the Austin metro area and transfers out of Austin, SA, Houston and the DFW area

in 2009 and 2010 the % in the top 25% of HS class was UTA with 60/61, UTD 53/57, Tech 51/52, TxState 51/52 North Texas 49/51, UTSA 36/40, UH 38/36, UTEP 35/35

but again those numbers are not a full comparison until looked at with enrollment growth as well

from 09-10 NT added 856, TxState 1447, Tech 1115, UH 1312, UTA 3476, UTEP 956, UTD 696, and UTSA 788 so most schools were holding or growing their % in the top 25% while adding more total students and % in the top 25% is one of the metrics for NRUF funding

UTSA and TxState have the lowest % of graduate to undergrads of the emerging research universities, but UTSA has the issue of needing to increase their freshman class metric while maintaining enrollment while TxState needs to increase restricted research dollars....TxState is adding programs in engineering and adding PhD programs specifically in engineering as well which will help research and those undergrads in those same programs will probably be better prepared as well while UTSA is already at a high level of PhD programs and engineering programs and needing to elevate their freshman class metrics

so TxState has added programs that will attract better prepared freshman and attract research dollars and they are growing faster as well while UTSA is not adding those types of programs and still needing to boost freshman class metrics in a state that mainly funds higher education based on enrollment so UTSA could well find themselves with stagnant enrollment growth (and stagnant funding levels) while TxState can maintain some growth if only slightly and keep their overall total dollar funding growing

UTA as well is at 15% graduate students now and they are above the 50% mark for top 25% of high school class so they can hold steady with what they are doing UTD is at 26% graduate students and adding undergrad engineering majors as well so they can grow enrollmen, keep a high freshman class metric, and continue on as they are now

UH is at 17% graduate students, but they did not use the freshman class metric to qualify for NRUF funding they used faculty quality (a metric that only UH and UTD met and that the others have little chance of meeting in the near or medium term future) so UH can afford to raise freshman metrics as they have recently and will again, but they don't have to do so at the expense of total enrollment and formula funding so they can still let in more "individual review" students

really of all the ones looking to use freshman class as a metric for NRUF UTSA and UTEP are in the worst shape and UTSA more so than UTEP because UTEP has a higher % of grad students now and they do more restricted research and they have a chance to possibly use endowment as a metric for NRUF funding down the road VS freshman class and TxState has the low graduate student %, but they have the freshman class metrics now and they can maintain that while growing enrollment and research dollars by having the ability to add programs that attract dollars and better prepared freshman students

I am not trying to tear UTSA down at all, but the point is that TxState does well attracting students from the Austin area, the SA area, and the Houston area and while TxState has restricted research to address down the road they have freshman class under control for the most part and they have a much better ability to control that than UTSA that is moving from a basically open enrollment while still needing to maintain total enrollment numbers and state formula funding and I don't think they will be all that successful if they are targeting potential TxState/Austin HS students they would probably be better served looking towards south Texas and keeping more top students from the SA area at home

the UT System does not make moves based on what happens at other universities like TxState.....Academics is not a competition similar to athletics at all and if UT was so concerned about TxState then they would have prevented them from adding enough Doctoral programs to become an emerging research university and they would have started the Edwards Aquifer research center and the like

TxState draws the largest (by far) % of their students from the Austin metro area so Westlake students might not be TxState, but a large number of other Austin area students are

UTSA had 352 students in the 2011 cohort from Travis County while TxState had 437 (and growing every year for the last few years while UTSA is down from 2007 and 2008) so while UTSA might be the new hot place for Westlake grads (for what reason I would not know other than the transfer program) it looks as though TxState is still more popular with the Travis County freshman class

I would imagine the % of college bound students that were from a school like Westlake that could not get into Texas or TAMU and could not afford privvate school and that did not want to consider Tech or TxState is extremely small compared to the total number of college bound seniors from a school like Westlake and that is ignoring students going to OU, OkState, Arkansas and other state schools that heavily recruit students from Texas

Westlake was not one of the top 10 feeder schools for UTSA as well in any recent year

Just for fun, the earth is round. Your thoughts?

[gksmith]

Just for fun, the earth is round. Your thoughts?

No way! Really?

500 years ago you would be considered a witch or guilty of blasphemy and burned at the stake.