27 replies to this topic

[GrandGreen]

A lot of you did not expect much this year, I did and was frankly disappointed particularly with the overall conference record. Yes academics and injuries were a major part of the problem but despite MTSU and Denver's record I didn't think the Belt was very strong. It was very balanced.

If you grade the team on a curb allowing for all the missing players, I would give this season higher marks. However, it turned out to be a typical JJ season: wins over weak teams in the oc, about .500 in the conference, and a good run in the tournament. Overall based on what should have been at the first of the year, I will give the team a C. They played hard and did a good job at times compensating for player loses, but they were never consistent and in my opinion the coaching staff did not do a great job of benefiting from Mitchell talent. As far as the individual players. My grading system: C = average Belt rotation player

Start with the seniors:

Hogans - Injured all year and never really got into the flow. It is a shame because he could have been a difference maker if healthy. My rating a D.

Edwards - Finally got some movement this year and probably lead the conference in fouls per minute. Never consistently effective at NT or in his career. Player you pulled for and had a couple of big games but was not a factor at the end of the year. My grade again a D. Good guy apparently, but I never understood his recruitment.

Hall - Who would have though how important he would be for the team. JJ who never significantly changed his game plan despite being down to three ship guards, depended a lot on Hall and he usually delivered. Grade C, although he really had a good year under the circumstances.

Juniors:

Niko S. - Just about what I expected when he signed. Must be a questionable practice player because he seemed to have a very short leash with the coaching staff. I think I liked him more than the coaching staff. Grade D

Walton - Really came on at end of year. I was disappointed early on but he got his shoot working and displayed good hustle. Grade B-

Holmen - All Belt Tournament team, got that long ball working. I still think he has a way to go on defense and rebounding. Holmen always seems to have a streak of good games somewhere in the season. This year it was at the end. Had health issues most of the year. Based on entire year my grade is C but late play make him a big factor next year.

Franklin - A tweener with a lot of heart, say to be team leader, really not big enough for inside or quick enough for outside but definitely can play. Grade C

Patton - Never played and may never; but based on the game I saw him play against NT will be a big asset if he does come back. Technically a senior rs I guess but has a year left to play.


Sophomores:

A. Williams - Most consistent player on the team when based on both ends of the court. Saved the team when Jones determined ineligible. Should be sure starter for two more year. Grade B+

Freshman:

Mitchell - Most natural talent of any NT player in memory. I would say he had to play out of position but I am not sure what his best position is. Many say 3 or wing, I like him at the 2 but he despite his jumping ability does not have a good inside game. I think he could turn Pro now and make a lot of money but he is still very raw and could definitely benefit NT and himself with at least another year. Grade A, not A+ because he can get much better.

Norris - Not a particularly good year even for a freshman. Though he looked better at the first of the year. Did show some potential, needs more confidence. Grade D

Robinson - Injured most of year, did show some outside shooting ability. Not high on my list for 6'10 players. Clearly not ready for a lot of minutes yet and frankly I was disappointed in his development. I think he lots of potential but at this point he has done nothing to distinguish himself from NT's other tall projects of the last decade. Grade D

Jones - There are lot of posters from other teams claiming that their freshman would have been FOY if it were not for Mitchell. I think Jones could have been better than any of them. I think this guy could be a great player for NT if he gets his act in order. I would have rated Jones a B+ based on his play before disqualification.

J. Williams - Another great freshman player who squandered his first year because of academics. Was really coming on at the time of his disqualification, would have rated him a B- based on first semester play.

Just my impressions and something to debate.

[forevereagle]

If you grade the team on a curb allowing for all the missing players...

Remind me not to take your classes.

[Censored by Laurie]

Remind me not to take your classes.

Professor Derek Vineyard?

[forevereagle]

Professor Derek Vineyard?

Could be.

[MeanGreenTexan]

A lot of you did not expect much this year, I did and was frankly disappointed particularly with the overall conference record. Yes academics and injuries were a major part of the problem but despite MTSU and Denver's record I didn't think the Belt was very strong. It was very balanced.

If you grade the team on a curb allowing for all the missing players, I would give this season higher marks. However, it turned out to be a typical JJ season: wins over weak teams in the oc, about .500 in the conference, and a good run in the tournament. Overall based on what should have been at the first of the year, I will give the team a C. They played hard and did a good job at times compensating for player loses, but they were never consistent and in my opinion the coaching staff did not do a great job of benefiting from Mitchell talent. As far as the individual players. My grading system: C = average Belt rotation player

Start with the seniors:

Hogans - Injured all year and never really got into the flow. It is a shame because he could have been a difference maker if healthy. My rating a D.

Edwards - Finally got some movement this year and probably lead the conference in fouls per minute. Never consistently effective at NT or in his career. Player you pulled for and had a couple of big games but was not a factor at the end of the year. My grade again a D. Good guy apparently, but I never understood his recruitment.

Hall - Who would have though how important he would be for the team. JJ who never significantly changed his game plan despite being down to three ship guards, depended a lot on Hall and he usually delivered. Grade C, although he really had a good year under the circumstances.

Juniors:

Niko S. - Just about what I expected when he signed. Must be a questionable practice player because he seemed to have a very short leash with the coaching staff. I think I liked him more than the coaching staff. Grade D

Walton - Really came on at end of year. I was disappointed early on but he got his shoot working and displayed good hustle. Grade B-

Holmen - All Belt Tournament team, got that long ball working. I still think he has a way to go on defense and rebounding. Holmen always seems to have a streak of good games somewhere in the season. This year it was at the end. Had health issues most of the year. Based on entire year my grade is C but late play make him a big factor next year.

Franklin - A tweener with a lot of heart, say to be team leader, really not big enough for inside or quick enough for outside but definitely can play. Grade C

Patton - Never played and may never; but based on the game I saw him play against NT will be a big asset if he does come back. Technically a senior rs I guess but has a year left to play.


Sophomores:

A. Williams - Most consistent player on the team when based on both ends of the court. Saved the team when Jones determined ineligible. Should be sure starter for two more year. Grade B+

Freshman:

Mitchell - Most natural talent of any NT player in memory. I would say he had to play out of position but I am not sure what his best position is. Many say 3 or wing, I like him at the 2 but he despite his jumping ability does not have a good inside game. I think he could turn Pro now and make a lot of money but he is still very raw and could definitely benefit NT and himself with at least another year. Grade A, not A+ because he can get much better.

Norris - Not a particularly good year even for a freshman. Though he looked better at the first of the year. Did show some potential, needs more confidence. Grade D

Robinson - Injured most of year, did show some outside shooting ability. Not high on my list for 6'10 players. Clearly not ready for a lot of minutes yet and frankly I was disappointed in his development. I think he lots of potential but at this point he has done nothing to distinguish himself from NT's other tall projects of the last decade. Grade D

Jones - There are lot of posters from other teams claiming that their freshman would have been FOY if it were not for Mitchell. I think Jones could have been better than any of them. I think this guy could be a great player for NT if he gets his act in order. I would have rated Jones a B+ based on his play before disqualification.

J. Williams - Another great freshman player who squandered his first year because of academics. Was really coming on at the time of his disqualification, would have rated him a B- based on first semester play.

Just my impressions and something to debate.

This is the report card of a team that wins 10 games and bows out of the conf. tournament in the first round as a 12 seed.

You're not giving alot of these guys enough credit.

EDIT: Here's how I would score it-
Hogans: C, big man was basically running on adrenaline out there. He was still able to contribute in the middle, although not as much as we thought... however we did not know the extent of his injuires. So maybe some of those expectations were overly optimistic.
Edwards: D, You're spot on here really, and that's sad.
Hall: B, Hall exceeded any and all expectations for him this year. It's a good thing too because we relied on him way too much.
Holmen: B+, He was banged up a little this year as well and I think that kept him from getting an A for me. Solid contributor.
Niko: B-, This guy was key for some serious runs throughout the year. Offensively, he was a fairly consistent player for us. Defensively... needs improvement.
Walton: B, Hit some HUGE shots this year for us. Also missed some HUGE shots for us this year. Overall, a very nice piece and a solid contributor to the team.
Franklin: B+, Franklin contributed to the team in alot of unseen ways. He stepped right in as the vocal leader of the team when Hogans wouldn't. 2nd on the team in boards and he scored more when Jones/Williams departed.
Patton: I, we won't know anything about him until next year.
A. Williams: A, I don't know how you could give this guy anything less than an A. Proved to be the best player on the team other than Mitchell.
Mitchell: A+, he was as advertised.
Norris: C-, I upped him because of some of his flashes. He has alot of development to do... Good thing he's only a freshman!
Robinson: C-, We missed out on alot of him this year due to various injuries. I thought JJ would consider redshirting him... See Norris' grade for reasoning.
Jones: I, Headed for an A+... then we all know what happened.
J Williams: I, Headed for a B+ to A-... then we all know what happened.

Edited by MeanGreenTexan, 07 March 2012 - 04:38 PM.

[GreenBat]

A lot of you did not expect much this year, I did and was frankly disappointed particularly with the overall conference record. Yes academics and injuries were a major part of the problem but despite MTSU and Denver's record I didn't think the Belt was very strong. It was very balanced.

If you grade the team on a curb allowing for all the missing players, I would give this season higher marks. However, it turned out to be a typical JJ season: wins over weak teams in the oc, about .500 in the conference, and a good run in the tournament. Overall based on what should have been at the first of the year, I will give the team a C. They played hard and did a good job at times compensating for player loses, but they were never consistent and in my opinion the coaching staff did not do a great job of benefiting from Mitchell talent. As far as the individual players. My grading system: C = average Belt rotation player

Start with the seniors:

Hogans - Injured all year and never really got into the flow. It is a shame because he could have been a difference maker if healthy. My rating a D.

Edwards - Finally got some movement this year and probably lead the conference in fouls per minute. Never consistently effective at NT or in his career. Player you pulled for and had a couple of big games but was not a factor at the end of the year. My grade again a D. Good guy apparently, but I never understood his recruitment.

Hall - Who would have though how important he would be for the team. JJ who never significantly changed his game plan despite being down to three ship guards, depended a lot on Hall and he usually delivered. Grade C, although he really had a good year under the circumstances.

Juniors:

Niko S. - Just about what I expected when he signed. Must be a questionable practice player because he seemed to have a very short leash with the coaching staff. I think I liked him more than the coaching staff. Grade D

Walton - Really came on at end of year. I was disappointed early on but he got his shoot working and displayed good hustle. Grade B-

Holmen - All Belt Tournament team, got that long ball working. I still think he has a way to go on defense and rebounding. Holmen always seems to have a streak of good games somewhere in the season. This year it was at the end. Had health issues most of the year. Based on entire year my grade is C but late play make him a big factor next year.

Franklin - A tweener with a lot of heart, say to be team leader, really not big enough for inside or quick enough for outside but definitely can play. Grade C

Patton - Never played and may never; but based on the game I saw him play against NT will be a big asset if he does come back. Technically a senior rs I guess but has a year left to play.


Sophomores:

A. Williams - Most consistent player on the team when based on both ends of the court. Saved the team when Jones determined ineligible. Should be sure starter for two more year. Grade B+

Freshman:

Mitchell - Most natural talent of any NT player in memory. I would say he had to play out of position but I am not sure what his best position is. Many say 3 or wing, I like him at the 2 but he despite his jumping ability does not have a good inside game. I think he could turn Pro now and make a lot of money but he is still very raw and could definitely benefit NT and himself with at least another year. Grade A, not A+ because he can get much better.

Norris - Not a particularly good year even for a freshman. Though he looked better at the first of the year. Did show some potential, needs more confidence. Grade D

Robinson - Injured most of year, did show some outside shooting ability. Not high on my list for 6'10 players. Clearly not ready for a lot of minutes yet and frankly I was disappointed in his development. I think he lots of potential but at this point he has done nothing to distinguish himself from NT's other tall projects of the last decade. Grade D

Jones - There are lot of posters from other teams claiming that their freshman would have been FOY if it were not for Mitchell. I think Jones could have been better than any of them. I think this guy could be a great player for NT if he gets his act in order. I would have rated Jones a B+ based on his play before disqualification.

J. Williams - Another great freshman player who squandered his first year because of academics. Was really coming on at the time of his disqualification, would have rated him a B- based on first semester play.

Just my impressions and something to debate.

There is not a rating button for CLUELESS. If there was that is what I would rank this post.

[foutsrouts]

A lot of you did not expect much this year, I did and was frankly disappointed particularly with the overall conference record. Yes academics and injuries were a major part of the problem but despite MTSU and Denver's record I didn't think the Belt was very strong. It was very balanced.

If you grade the team on a curb allowing for all the missing players, I would give this season higher marks. However, it turned out to be a typical JJ season: wins over weak teams in the oc, about .500 in the conference, and a good run in the tournament. Overall based on what should have been at the first of the year, I will give the team a C. They played hard and did a good job at times compensating for player loses, but they were never consistent and in my opinion the coaching staff did not do a great job of benefiting from Mitchell talent. As far as the individual players. My grading system: C = average Belt rotation player

Start with the seniors:

Hogans - Injured all year and never really got into the flow. It is a shame because he could have been a difference maker if healthy. My rating a D. I have no doubt that he would have been an excellent contributor were it not for the injuries. Incomplete

Edwards - Finally got some movement this year and probably lead the conference in fouls per minute. Never consistently effective at NT or in his career. Player you pulled for and had a couple of big games but was not a factor at the end of the year. My grade again a D. Good guy apparently, but I never understood his recruitment. Never really got off the ground. Incomplete

Hall - Who would have though how important he would be for the team. JJ who never significantly changed his game plan despite being down to three ship guards, depended a lot on Hall and he usually delivered. Grade C, although he really had a good year under the circumstances. He gave us much more than we could have possibly expected. A

Juniors:

Niko S. - Just about what I expected when he signed. Must be a questionable practice player because he seemed to have a very short leash with the coaching staff. I think I liked him more than the coaching staff. Grade D. A nice addition who performed AT LEAST up to expectations. B

Walton - Really came on at end of year. I was disappointed early on but he got his shoot working and displayed good hustle. Grade B-. Developed into one of our more consistent scorers. After watching him at Casper, I had my doubts early on. Solid B

Holmen - All Belt Tournament team, got that long ball working. I still think he has a way to go on defense and rebounding. Holmen always seems to have a streak of good games somewhere in the season. This year it was at the end. Had health issues most of the year. Based on entire year my grade is C but late play make him a big factor next year. Finally showed us that mid-range jumper. With health, I'm looking for more out of his all around game next season. Another Solid B

Franklin - A tweener with a lot of heart, say to be team leader, really not big enough for inside or quick enough for outside but definitely can play. Grade C. Just really learning the college game after limited minutes at OSU, but still showed excellent leadership and overall skills. Would have liked to see a little more consistency from him. I'll go with a B-

Patton - Never played and may never; but based on the game I saw him play against NT will be a big asset if he does come back. Technically a senior rs I guess but has a year left to play.


Sophomores:

A. Williams - Most consistent player on the team when based on both ends of the court. Saved the team when Jones determined ineligible. Should be sure starter for two more year. Grade B+. Similar to Walton, in that I had my doubts about his ability to hit the jumper consistently, but he disspelled those early on. A

Freshman:

Mitchell - Most natural talent of any NT player in memory. I would say he had to play out of position but I am not sure what his best position is. Many say 3 or wing, I like him at the 2 but he despite his jumping ability does not have a good inside game. I think he could turn Pro now and make a lot of money but he is still very raw and could definitely benefit NT and himself with at least another year. Grade A, not A+ because he can get much better.
Nothing much to say but Solid A

Norris - Not a particularly good year even for a freshman. Though he looked better at the first of the year. Did show some potential, needs more confidence. Grade D. Lean toward an Incomplete but based on expectations I'll give him a Solid C

Robinson - Injured most of year, did show some outside shooting ability. Not high on my list for 6'10 players. Clearly not ready for a lot of minutes yet and frankly I was disappointed in his development. I think he lots of potential but at this point he has done nothing to distinguish himself from NT's other tall projects of the last decade. Grade D Lean toward an Incomplete but based on expectations I'll give him a Solid C

Jones - There are lot of posters from other teams claiming that their freshman would have been FOY if it were not for Mitchell. I think Jones could have been better than any of them. I think this guy could be a great player for NT if he gets his act in order. I would have rated Jones a B+ based on his play before disqualification. Lean toward an Incomplete but based on expectations I'll give him a Solid B+

J. Williams - Another great freshman player who squandered his first year because of academics. Was really coming on at the time of his disqualification, would have rated him a B- based on first semester play. Lean toward an Incomplete but based on expectations I'll give him a Solid B

Just my impressions and something to debate.

A strange season due to injuries and ineligibility, but I'll go ahead and grade above based mainly on expectations. I may look like an easy grader, but we really did have a lot of guys out there this year with very little to no D1 experience, and it's really hard to be too negative based on the circumstances we had to deal with.

[cl_1_2008]

He said he was grading where a C was a belt rotation player. Not going off of expectations, but strictly performance. There are some things I'd correct, but y'all are being way too harsh in judging his post.

[Mean Green 93-98]

There is not a rating button for CLUELESS. If there was that is what I would rank this post.

Always there to provide insightful constructive criticism.

[MeanGreenTexan]

He said he was grading where a C was a belt rotation player. Not going off of expectations, but strictly performance. There are some things I'd correct, but y'all are being way too harsh in judging his post.

I guess we need to define "rotation" then. Norris was a "rotation" player. He didn't get heavy minutes, but he was in the "rotation".

[cl_1_2008]

Sorry, it was "average belt rotation player." And, while I certainly think he'll improve, he was not up to par this year. Our starting PG was deemed ineligible, and instead of him stepping into that role, they had to have someone move positions, and he still never played big minutes. But, I think he'll be a much better player next season.

[GrandGreen]

There is not a rating button for CLUELESS. If there was that is what I would rank this post.

I have given you my clueless evaluation and although I appreciate your astute observation, how about giving me some support to counter my view instead of the shorthand version. I gave you my rationale I was rating basically against Belt teams and players and was basing my grades on "on court" performance. Sure if you consider "if and buts" you can rate this team and many of the individual players higher; which is exactly what I said. The facts are almost every team has sad tales to tell and it is impossible to gauge one team against another based on what ifs. ULL had two key players suspended during the tournament, ASU threw their supposed to be best player off the team early season, and WKU changed coaches mid stream. Impossible to factor all that in and we obviously don't know as much about other teams' issues.

Homer-ism is great but this team had a deserved rpi of 196 and finished 9-7 in the Belt with one of the weakest SOS in the nation. If that is not a C, I don't know what it is. Everyone has opinions and those that actually bother to actually contribute to the discussion seemed to be mostly in line with my view, however many seemed to cringe at the grading system. I realize that Holmen, Hogans, Edwards, Robinson and maybe others all had injury issues, but frankly that is part of the game. If you want to qualify their performance based on those outside factors great, but that was not the basis of my evaluations.

GreenBat, it is a great to be a fan but try to actually take a minute and analysis your comments before you type 'enter". I am not going to call you clueless but your and others lack of objectivity is amazing.

Edited by GrandGreen, 07 March 2012 - 08:55 PM.

[97and03]

A strange season due to injuries and ineligibility, but I'll go ahead and grade above based mainly on expectations. I may look like an easy grader, but we really did have a lot of guys out there this year with very little to no D1 experience, and it's really hard to be too negative based on the circumstances we had to deal with.

God I hope you are not a teacher. If you are, it explains why our kids are growing up stupid.

Edited by 97and03, 07 March 2012 - 09:08 PM.

[Roadruner]

I have given you my clueless evaluation and although I appreciate your astute observation, how about giving me some support to counter my view instead of the shorthand version. I gave you my rationale I was rating basically against Belt teams and players and was basing my grades on "on court" performance. Sure if you consider "if and buts" you can rate this team and many of the individual players higher; which is exactly what I said. The facts are almost every team has sad tales to tell and it is impossible to gauge one team against another based on what ifs. ULL had two key players suspended during the tournament, ASU threw their supposed to be best player off the team early season, and WKU changed coaches mid stream. Impossible to factor all that in and we obviously don't know as much about other teams' issues.

Homer-ism is great but this team had a deserved rpi of 196 and finished 9-7 in the Belt with one of the weakest SOS in the nation. If that is not a C, I don't know what it is. Everyone has opinions and those that actually bother to actually contribute to the discussion seemed to be mostly in line with my view, however many seemed to cringe at the grading system. I realize that Holmen, Hogans, Edwards, Robinson and maybe others all had injury issues, but frankly that is part of the game. If you want to qualify their performance based on those outside factors great, but that was not the basis of my evaluations.

GreenBat, it is a great to be a fan but try to actually take a minute and analysis your comments before you type 'enter". I am not going to call you clueless but your and others lack of objectivity is amazing.

I am not much on grading players as I feel it’s a game-by-game grade but for the overall season I feel our players gave a very good effort every game. I feel they followed the coach’s game plans very closely.

As for last night’s game, Tony trailed the whole team on most transitions down the court from offense to defense and WKU took advantage many times by getting the ball down the court fast and getting the easy lay up – then there was the not knowing it was a 1 & 1 free throw and not blocking out for the rebound – then our guard did not dribble but held the ball twice while closely guarded and lost it twice – I feel there were enough mental mistakes to go around to average out a C for the WKU game performance.

As far as our team overall for the season, we lost this and other games this year because we have failed to develop a mid-range shooting game from the foul line, the elbow and up to within 4 feet of the basket. I feel Forest and Niko would be our mid-range shooters but they have not been developed as such.

Give the WKU coach credit - he has won many national tiles on various levels in the NCAA – they have a mid-range game – his name is Akol – if you recorded the game go back and watch where he shot from and how he moved on offense. I feel we could learn from his style of play and the way their coach moves his players on offense. We also might want to take a look at his defensive scheme - that was a great pack in defense.

I feel next year we will be really loaded with talent and if we develop our mid-range shooting game we will have a possible 22 win season and make the NCAA.

Hopefully this will be a learning experience for everyone and we will be great next year.

[GreenBat]

I have given you my clueless evaluation and although I appreciate your astute observation, how about giving me some support to counter my view instead of the shorthand version. I gave you my rationale I was rating basically against Belt teams and players and was basing my grades on "on court" performance. Sure if you consider "if and buts" you can rate this team and many of the individual players higher; which is exactly what I said. The facts are almost every team has sad tales to tell and it is impossible to gauge one team against another based on what ifs. ULL had two key players suspended during the tournament, ASU threw their supposed to be best player off the team early season, and WKU changed coaches mid stream. Impossible to factor all that in and we obviously don't know as much about other teams' issues.

Homer-ism is great but this team had a deserved rpi of 196 and finished 9-7 in the Belt with one of the weakest SOS in the nation. If that is not a C, I don't know what it is. Everyone has opinions and those that actually bother to actually contribute to the discussion seemed to be mostly in line with my view, however many seemed to cringe at the grading system. I realize that Holmen, Hogans, Edwards, Robinson and maybe others all had injury issues, but frankly that is part of the game. If you want to qualify their performance based on those outside factors great, but that was not the basis of my evaluations.

GreenBat, it is a great to be a fan but try to actually take a minute and analysis your comments before you type 'enter". I am not going to call you clueless but your and others lack of objectivity is amazing.

I don't care to evaluate the players. I just choose to cheer for them. You see GrandGreen, opinions are like buttocks, everyone has one and they all stink like poop!
My opinion stinks, Your opinion stinks.

The only reason I gave your evaluation a clueless is because I had already used all my negatives.