JJ needs to go; men lose to MTSU at home

[SUMG]

Middle Tennessee beat us tonight 62-60.

Our team is now 12-10, with a 5-6 conference record. With four remaining conference games, all on the road (at: WKU, Denver, Troy, and S Bama).....it doesn't look too good for the Mean Green.

This is the man's 5th year. There is absolutely zero progress. Tim Jankovich and Vic Trilli were both just given four years to get it done. Why should JJ get a 6th????

[THOR]

I seem to remember everyone praising JJ earlier in the year. My how things change...

[SUMG]

Well, I wasn't one of those praising him. I felt like last year should have been his "do or die" year.

Anyway, he was given this 5th season. And the rumor is, was told that all he had to do was win 14 games to be back next year. (And if that is the case--that is a ridiculously low standard for a 5th year coach to have to meet...14 wins, when there are three lower Division schools on the schedule).

Just lose, baby.

Edited February 10, 2006 by SUMG

[NTEagle08]

basicly 40 minutes of street ball tonight. Rather than attacking to the basket, NT put alot and I mean ALOT of 3 pointers tonight. I feel like we are turning into Cubs fans with saying, "there's always next year" with this basketball program.

[eaglehoney]

I wasn't one of those people either. I agree with SUMG last year should have been his do or die year. I wonder how true the 14 to win rumor is. I think they can win 2 more (Troy and S. Bama), but it will not be easy. WKU is possible but I just don't see it happening. It is always hard to win in Denver with the altitude, so I don't see that one happening either. However, I don't see them losing 7 in a row. I would like to see them win the last 4 because I am a Mean Green fan, but at the same time I am not a JJ fan and I am ready for him to go.

[NTEagle08]

Stat Line of the night:

North Texas 6-26 from the 3 point line

[meangreendork]

Let's wait until the season is over. It's funny how quickly opinions shift these days...

Though to be honest- a lot of the losses this season were by small margins, most of which could be covered by better rebounding and...well, just tighter play.

[drex]

Junior high basketball coaches can tell you that you put your center under the basketball when on offense, not almost up at the free throw line. This team had far too many poor passes, poor shots and some untimely turnovers. JJ is a wonderful person who I want to succeed, but the team is melting before our very eyes. I am frustrated. I do feel that next year's team might be good, but that is next year. There will be more beef in the middle and more height in the middle next...let's hope they plant themselves under the basket for a change. It should be interesting to see how this team does at the 'neutral site' of Murphreesboro in the SBC tournament. Everyone pray that we do not draw Middle Tennessee for our first opponent.

[Cooley]

Don't give up on this team yet guys! Our future looks bright; right Calvin?

2005-2006 class

Harold Stewart

(more fouls (4) & turnovers (3) than points (0)

Lionel Brown

(our shoot first point guard with 4 turnovers; 1-5 from the field)

Rich Young

(3 points)

Harold Edwards

(solid game with 6 points 33% from the field)

Justin Howerton

(0 points and 2 fouls in 4 minutes)

[UNTSportsGuy]

I was impressed tonight with the effort out of Harold Edwards, then you didn't watch the same game I did. He really got after his man on the defensive end of the floor. How many rebounds did he have? How many assists or nice pases to an open man did he have? You can pick any numbers to show any point that you want.

Harold Stewart had an off night, I am pretty sure you can find any freshman in the NCAA and find them with an off night.

I am pretty sure Howerton did his job tonight as he ate up minutes and played physical on the post. Numbers can lie, but if you don't see the potential in these freshman then I guess it's not even worth your time or money for you to come to games.

edit: being stupid and not reading and not being able to spell

Edited February 10, 2006 by UNTSportsGuy

[Cooley]

Sports Guy

I think the point SUMG was making (& others) is that this is year 5 or 6. When do we start winning? (excluding home games against lower division schools)

All I read about, with the freshmen, are words like "Effort", "Potential" "Upside" etc etc. You either come in as a player or you aren't. Juco kids should be expected to come in with a bang. Never doubted Stewart's work ethic, and others, in this latest class. I apologize if I often come across as bashing the kids. I'm dissapointed with the sense of urgency to win, by signing a class of prospects/role players in year 5 or 6.

Impact freshmen are all over the place. (not in Denton) If you review the NBA drafts, you will notice that most top HS kids just skip college altogether. (and perform well their freshman year in the NBA). Locally, our own Chris Bosh, played 1 year at Ga Tech before playing 1 year in the NBA. He's an NBA all-star in year 2. FW Dunbar's Jeremis Smith is an impact player at Ga Tech this year. The NBA all-star roster will be full of guys that went right to the NBA after HS. (or 1 or 2 years afterwards) The NFL draft will will be full of underclassmen. (More if the rules would allow them)

I can better understand the argument that our freshmen may not be ready to play at UT or Ok but we are not at that level of talent yet.

With summer leagues for high school kids and extended tournaments, it's not asking too much for these kids to excel right away as freshman. We are just having a difficult time recruiting the right ones to Denton.

The bigger question remains, how long should a coach be given? (albeit a very nice one)

[Guest e-bone]

Did you just say that most straight to the NBA high schoolers do well in their first year in the NBA? For every Garnett or LeBron who gets a lot of attention there are 5 or more kids who never make it. Heck, even guys like Jermaine O'Neal take years before they even become legitimate NBA players.

Also, it is easy to take stats from one bad game and say how bad a player is. I didn't see you do that for good games the team had. But then again, it would be much harder to skew the numbers in your favor I suppose. And we can't have those players looking good now, can we?

Recruiting hasn't been JJ's problem. Sure there have been a few busts, but that happens everywhere. The problem is that JJ's teams often show a lack of discipline, especially late in games. Another problem is that teams of recent years have been bad road teams. That falls back on the coach and preparing them for such games. Falling apart half way through the season is another huge problem. I would liked to have thought that we could have gotten over the hump this year, but it seems we have not. The season isn't quite over so they still have a little time to prove themselves, but I'm not expecting much.

To whoever was crying about a center not being under the basket, hey, that's basketball buddy. There are a lot of different offenses and some include a post setting a high screen. Ever hear of the pick and roll? Even junior high coaches teach the pick and roll. And guess what, it doesn't involve the post just standing under the basket.

[UNTLifer]

The problem is that JJ's teams often show a lack of discipline, especially late in games. Another problem is that teams of recent years have been bad road teams. That falls back on the coach and preparing them for such games. Falling apart half way through the season is another huge problem. I would liked to have thought that we could have gotten over the hump this year, but it seems we have not. The season isn't quite over so they still have a little time to prove themselves, but I'm not expecting much.

←

I agree with your entire post e-bone, but the above quote highlights why I think it is time for JJ to move on. He is a great guy, but his teams just don't produce for the above reasons. He has had plenty of time to succeed in Denton.

[EagleMBA]

Time to adjourn the pity party. JJ at least has them competitive, although we have been on the short end of too many one-possession losses. In prior years he had to deal with more than his share of physical problems and this year it looks like discipline. Rat ball is not fun to watch for someone who likes to see a more structured offense. Nonetheless, I have seen a parade of coaches over the years and I think JJ runs the best overall program. I voiced my fears about pressure on JJ in a post months ago, and it looks like it is developing due to the lack of significant improvement (on paper) this season. What a shame. Give the man one more season, "make-or-break". If the ball doesn't bounce the other way, well, he has been given every opportunity.

[untbowler]

Time to adjourn the pity party.  JJ at least has them competitive, although we have been on the short end of too many one-possession losses.  In prior years he had to deal with more than his share of physical problems and this year it looks like discipline.  Rat ball is not fun to watch for someone who likes to see a more structured offense.  Nonetheless, I have seen a parade of coaches over the years and I think JJ runs the best overall program.  I voiced my fears about pressure on JJ in a post months ago, and it looks like it is developing due to the lack of significant improvement (on paper) this season.  What a shame.  Give the man one more season, "make-or-break".  If the ball doesn't bounce the other way, well, he has been given every opportunity.

←

Guess we can give him the DD treatment and let him stay until he reaches .500 mark, granted he had one injury racked season but it just does not look good right now.

[Travis]

Give the man one more season, "make-or-break".  If the ball doesn't bounce the other way, well, he has been given every opportunity.

←

I was under the impression that this was his "make or break" year.

[LoveMG]

I was under the impression that this was his "make or break" year.

←

Sure, let's keep all the coaches forever because they're nice. Who needs accountability? Isn't soccer the only program with a winning coach? We could give tenure to any coach who stays 5 or more years. Wake up people!

[Travis]

Sure, let's keep all the coaches forever because they're nice.  Who needs accountability?  Isn't soccer the only program with a winning coach?  We could give tenure to any coach who stays 5 or more years.  Wake up people!

←

Hey man, reread what i said... I am not saying hold on to the guy.

My point is that we can't keep giving him an extra year. This was his extra year to prove worthy of taking us in a direction.

[EagleMBA]

Well, maybe it's time to talk about who might do a better job AND be available to us for what we can pay. It looks like Quin Snyder will be available soon, according to him in an article today in the DMN. Should we call him? Would he run a better program than JJ?

[calvin]

Cooley,

You mentioned Jeremis Smith, so tell me what grade is he in ?

Also JJ Redick had a great freshman year but how much better is he now that he is a Senior ?

What about Adam Morrison have you been hearing about him since his Freshman year ?

What about one of the top 5 recruits in the nation a couple of years ago LaMarcus Aldridge what kind of year was he having last year, a decent one but not awesome, how much better is he this year ?

Give these freshman time to develop..............I am not worried about the Freshman class, I am more worried as to why we fade every year at the end. We were 12-6 at one point and a couple of shots away from being 14-4 and have just fell apart.

[cdawgrun]

Coach Jones will get this rolling in the right direction once again, he's a great guy, an excellent recruiter and they will be better next year..Garunteed, they will go to the posteason..not just the SBC tournament..they will be in a postseason tournament next year. Don't give up, we might win 3 or 4 in the SBC tourney and go to the ncaa's this year...don't give up, remember we also don't have sturns...jones is taking a stand. He'll pull thru, i believe in him.

[SUMG]

Well, maybe it's time to talk about who might do a better job AND be available to us for what we can pay. 

←

Boy, I get so sick of this "who can we get for what we pay?" junk. Somehow, Idaho just got Dennis Erickson for less than what we are paying Dickey. Yes, he signed for 5 years, at a base of $200,000 a year, with incentives he could reach $300,000 a year.

Yet, our fans think we can't get anyone worthy. The last time the b-ball coaching job was open, there were four candidates besides JJ, who were given strong consideration. Of those four, three were hired as coaches by other Div 1 schools (Billy Gillespie, now at A & M, was hired by UTEP; Ray Lopes, an Oklahoma assistant was hired by Fresno State; and Jay John, an Ariz. assistant got a job at Oregon State. So all three of them were quality candidates to say the least, if greater programs than ours hired them.

To me the best candidate of the bunch, was Sam Houston State coach Bob Marlin. He has more quality wins in OOC this season than JJ has had during his UNT tenure.

So, if the job opens up....we will get some quality candidates who want our job.

Edited February 10, 2006 by SUMG

[UNTLifer]

Coach Jones will get this rolling in the right direction once again, he's a great guy, an excellent recruiter and they will be better next year..

←

The qualities you note above and the qualities we all see in him. Unfortunately, you didn't list great coach. "Rolling again in the right direction?" When was it rolling in the right direction? How many years should it take to turn it around? I would think 5 is plenty.

[Cooley]

Player Stats (Season)

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teamstats?teamId=249

[EagleD]

Also JJ Redick had a great freshman year but how much better is he now that he is a Senior ?

←

Is this a serious question? Every time I see Duke play he's the MAN!

That being said, you can't compare the two programs.

GO MEAN GREEN !!!!!!!!