DRC: Littrell, Kiffin to met in clash of elite offensive minds

[Brett Vito]

DRC:

http://www.dentonrc.com/sports/mean-green/2017/10/18/clash-thetitans-littrell-kiffin-bring-offensive-prowess-unt-fau-showdown

Edited October 18, 2017 by Brett Vito

[Brett Vito]

bump

[untcampbell]

Look alike of Littrell in headline picture. Win out, and we will need a shot of St. Littrell trading places, reaching down to Adam who will be adorned in a Light The Tower t-shirt.

GMG

[GMG24]

My personal opinion, Kiffin is a snake who only cares bout himself, Littrell actually cares bout where he is at. 

[NT93]

6 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

My personal opinion, Kiffin is a snake who only cares bout himself, Littrell actually cares bout where he is at. 

Couldn't agree more.  Not a fan of Kiffin at all...he just seems like such a sleezy used car salesman (with apologies to any used car salesmen reading this). 

I'm probably wrong on this because I know money talks, but I really feel like Littrell could be our Patterson.  Man, how I hope I'm right.

[MeanGreen01]

I believe Littrell, GH, and Wren know NT is a diamond in the rough with tremendous opportunity. Yes, similar to Patterson at TCU, building this program in a healthy way for long term success (Unlike Briles at Baylor or Kiffin at FAU). Littrell has talked about this numerous times, not being a one shot wonder type program. They will build this program like we haven’t seen before and will be honored later in life for doing so, similar to a Hayden Fry. I realize this is a very bold statement but hopefully this comes to fruition. #NewDenton

[MeanGreenTexan]

You guys hoping Littrell will stay forever & guide us through the G5 wilderness to the P5 promised land like Patterson have not been paying attention to his career, and not listening to the people trying to show you evidence why he won't.

I'm not saying he's leaving after this season.  Even if UNT were to go something like 10-3 with a bowl win this year, I don't think anyone  will call (outside of maybe other G5s in the AAC/MWC... and since we're paying him over a $mil/yr after incentives, he's not going to another G5).  But if he can keep up 8/9+ wins/season for the next 2-3yrs, he'll get calls from low-mid rung P5's.  & if/when he does, he's gone.   His track record speaks for itself.

And y'all, it's not necessarily a bad thing either.  If other coaches see UNT as a solid stepping stone to P5 jobs, the good ones will be interested in coming here. 
If the TCU/Patterson model is not available for you, would you be interested in the Boise model?   I know I would.
Also, the TCU model started with Fran.  He's the one who started the successful run... and dropped Patterson off.  Who's to say the Patterson-like coach is not on staff now as an assistant?

[MeanGreen_MBA]

5 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

You guys hoping Littrell will stay forever & guide us through the G5 wilderness to the P5 promised land like Patterson have not been paying attention to his career, and not listening to the people trying to show you evidence why he won't.

I'm not saying he's leaving after this season.  Even if UNT were to go something like 10-3 with a bowl win this year, I don't think anyone  will call (outside of maybe other G5s in the AAC/MWC... and since we're paying him over a $mil/yr after incentives, he's not going to another G5).  But if he can keep up 8/9+ wins/season for the next 2-3yrs, he'll get calls from low-mid rung P5's.  & if/when he does, he's gone.   His track record speaks for itself.

And y'all, it's not necessarily a bad thing either.  If other coaches see UNT as a solid stepping stone to P5 jobs, the good ones will be interested in coming here. 
If the TCU/Patterson model is not available for you, would you be interested in the Boise model?   I know I would.
Also, the TCU model started with Fran.  He's the one who started the successful run... and dropped Patterson off.  Who's to say the Patterson-like coach is not on staff now as an assistant?

GH?

[MeanGreenTexan]

4 minutes ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

GH?

TR?  No one?  I dunno. 

[southsideguy]

you never know what will happen. When I lived in albuquerque and steve alford was the hc and very successful all the lobos fan thought he was there to stay.  I told them he would be gone given opportunity.  Alford is now the head coach of UCLA and UNM has fallen hard in basketball.  They hired the NMSU coach because he was beating them so often.  It would be great if SL wanted to make his home in Denton.  I just won't count on it.  He is young and moving up the ladder.  I am not sure it is even the money they go for.  The chance to play for  national championships is what they want. SL would most likely have a job for life if he stayed at UNT.

Edited October 20, 2017 by southsideguy

[MeanGreen_MBA]

1 hour ago, southsideguy said:

you never know what will happen. When I lived in albuquerque and steve alford was the hc and very successful all the lobos fan thought he was there to stay.  I told them he would be gone given opportunity.  Alford is now the head coach of UCLA and UNM has fallen hard in basketball.  They hired the NMSU coach because he was beating them so often.  It would be great if SL wanted to make his home in Denton.  I just won't count on it.  He is young and moving up the ladder.  I am not sure it is even the money they go for.  The chance to play for  national championships is what they want. SL would most likely have a job for life if he stated at UNT.

if he can win 8+ games year in and year out.....SL could stay here till retirement.....be a local hero, probably a statue....name the field after him.....just sayin'

[MeanGreenTexan]

32 minutes ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

if he can win 8+ games year in and year out.....SL could stay here till retirement.....be a local hero, probably a statue....name the field after him.....just sayin'

Clearly not what he's looking for.

[UNTLifer]

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

You guys hoping Littrell will stay forever & guide us through the G5 wilderness to the P5 promised land like Patterson have not been paying attention to his career, and not listening to the people trying to show you evidence why he won't.

 

What in Patterson's history made anyone think he would put down roots in Fort Worth?

Coaching career (HC unless noted)
1982	Kansas State (GA)
1983–1984	Tennessee Tech (LB)
1986	UC Davis (LB)
1987	Cal Lutheran (DC)
1988	Pittsburg State (LB)
1989–1991	Sonoma State (DC)
1992	Oregon Lightning Bolts
1992–1994	Utah State (DB)
1995	Navy (DB)
1996–1997	New Mexico (DC/S)
1998–2000	TCU (DC/S)
2000–present	TCU

 

Nothing prior to arriving at TCU would lead one to believe he would stay, so I don't think SL's previous moves dictate that he will continue to move.

32 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Clearly not what he's looking for.

What is he looking for?  What are you seeing that some of us are not?

You know, sometimes people end up somewhere, think it will be a short stay and 30 years later they are still there.

Edited October 20, 2017 by UNTLifer

[MeanGreenTexan]

3 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

What in Patterson's history made anyone think he would put down roots in Fort Worth?

Coaching career (HC unless noted)
1982	Kansas State (GA)
1983–1984	Tennessee Tech (LB)
1986	UC Davis (LB)
1987	Cal Lutheran (DC)
1988	Pittsburg State (LB)
1989–1991	Sonoma State (DC)
1992	Oregon Lightning Bolts
1992–1994	Utah State (DB)
1995	Navy (DB)
1996–1997	New Mexico (DC/S)
1998–2000	TCU (DC/S)
2000–present	TCU

 

Nothing prior to arriving at TCU would lead one to believe he would stay, so I don't think SL's previous moves dictate that he will continue to move.

What is he looking for?  What are you seeing that some of us are not?

You know, sometimes people end up somewhere, think it will be a short stay and 30 years later they are still there.

I don't have a crystal ball, just pretty good discernment.  Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Ben Gooding]

2 hours ago, southsideguy said:

you never know what will happen. When I lived in albuquerque and steve alford was the hc and very successful all the lobos fan thought he was there to stay.  I told them he would be gone given opportunity.  Alford is now the head coach of UCLA and UNM has fallen hard in basketball.  They hired the NMSU coach because he was beating them so often.  It would be great if SL wanted to make his home in Denton.  I just won't count on it.  He is young and moving up the ladder.  I am not sure it is even the money they go for.  The chance to play for  national championships is what they want. SL would most likely have a job for life if he stated at UNT.

This mindset needs to be eradicated from the earth we walk on. He is 9-10 overall. The needle is definitely moving, but let's not put the wagon in front of the horse. 

[Cerebus]

I can promise you WB and SL have no intention of being here in five years. 

Which, to be truthful, is perfectly fine with me as long as the reason they aren't here is five years is because they were so successful someone had to throw money at them to get them.  When is the last time that has happened at NT?  

Pointing to GP is pointing to ancient history.  GP took the TCU job ALMOST 20 YEARS AGO.  At that time, the divide between the big money conferences and the others was not so big.  It's the iron curtain now.  No G5 is ever going to make the leap into P5 again, in fact, some P5 teams are going to be left out of the new P4.  

[Ben Gooding]

1 minute ago, Cerebus said:

I can promise you WB and SL have no intention of being here in five years. 

Which, to be truthful, is perfectly fine with me as long as the reason they aren't here is five years is because they were so successful someone had to throw money at them to get them.  When is the last time that has happened at NT?  

Pointing to GP is pointing to ancient history.  GP took the TCU job ALMOST 20 YEARS AGO.  At that time, the divide between the big money conferences and the others was not so big.  It's the iron curtain now.  No G5 is ever going to make the leap into P5 again, in fact, some P5 teams are going to be left out of the new P4.  

100% speculation. 

Though you may very well be right, but we just don't know. And a G5 with aspirations just can't assume this as concrete factual information. The top tier G5 south/midwest teams will inevitably be grouped with the big12 leftovers. Though it may not be considered a "P5/P4", it will make for a very competitive group to be associated with. That should be the goal, and that goal has an expiration on it: LHN deal ending in 2023 I believe. The domino's will start to fall at that time, and we need to be positioned very well. Facilities up to par, success in both bball and football, thriving campus, AND baseball. 

[Cerebus]

Just now, Ben Gooding said:

100% speculation. 

Go ahead and counter it with you 100% double blind replicated study based facts then.

Oh wait, this entire board is 100% speculation...

[Ben Gooding]

1 minute ago, Cerebus said:

Go ahead and counter it with you 100% double blind replicated study based facts then.

Oh wait, this entire board is 100% speculation...

Not really.

Some posts have some kind of evidence or at least link based references to back up the information. Stating that 0 current G5 programs will ever play in a P5 conference is baseless. I have not read or heard 1 thing to suggest such. 

We need to be prepared in 2023. That's the point. 

[Cerebus]

Just now, Ben Gooding said:

Not really.

So what peer reviewed journal was this published in?  

[TIgreen01]

20 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

I can promise you WB and SL have no intention of being here in five years. 

Which, to be truthful, is perfectly fine with me as long as the reason they aren't here is five years is because they were so successful someone had to throw money at them to get them.  When is the last time that has happened at NT?  

Pointing to GP is pointing to ancient history.  GP took the TCU job ALMOST 20 YEARS AGO.  At that time, the divide between the big money conferences and the others was not so big.  It's the iron curtain now.  No G5 is ever going to make the leap into P5 again, in fact, some P5 teams are going to be left out of the new P4.  

People also forget that TCU was throwing huge amounts of money at the football program.  They didn't get there overnight, but by the time he got them into the Rose Bowl they were a top 10 NATIONAL spender on football program alone.  That school's donors really took the SWC/Big12 snubbing to heart and responded by putting more money into the thing.

The UNT admin is putting more money than they have been into our AD, and really our big 2 sports, but so far we're not seeing our donors come up with the numbers that TCU did---or even in the same ballpark that SMU or Houston are now.

 

Edited October 20, 2017 by TIgreen01

[Ben Gooding]

1 minute ago, Cerebus said:

So what peer reviewed journal was this published in?  

Same one that said no G5 will ever play in the P5. 

[MeanGreen_MBA]

3 minutes ago, TIgreen01 said:

People also forget that TCU was throwing huge amounts of money at the football program.  They didn't get there overnight, but by the time he got them into the Rose Bowl they were a top 10 NATIONAL spender on football program alone.  That school's donors really took the SWC/Big12 snubbing to heart and responded by putting more money into the thing.

The UNT admin is putting more money than they have been into our AD, and really our big 2 sports, but so far we're not seeing our donors come out with the numbers that TCU did---or even SMU or Houston are now.

 

you do realize that we are having the best fund raising year in history University wide....  I heard NS at the Collin County Alumni event on Weds. night

[Cerebus]

Just now, Ben Gooding said:

Same one that said no G5 will ever play in the P5. 

You're moving the goalposts.  Your original argument was that my viewpoint was 100% speculation, but that in contrast yours was not.  The argument that both our viewpoints were speculation is in fact what I was arguing.

So, do you agree with that?  Or are you still arguing that your viewpoint is not speculation.  In that case, go ahead and cite your evidence.  I'm not 100% sure what is the preferred citation methodology for internet arguments, so I'm going to suggest MLA.

1 minute ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

you do realize that we are having the best fund raising year in history University wide....  I heard NS at the Collin County Alumni event on Weds. night

That is true, and those efforts should be applauded, but we have a long way to go.  Endowment is probably the #1 largest problem we will have to meet Texas Tier 1 funding.

TCU's endowment is about 5 times the size of ours.  

[MeanGreen_MBA]

6 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

You're moving the goalposts.  Your original argument was that my viewpoint was 100% speculation, but that in contrast yours was not.  The argument that both our viewpoints were speculation is in fact what I was arguing.

So, do you agree with that?  Or are you still arguing that your viewpoint is not speculation.  In that case, go ahead and cite your evidence.  I'm not 100% sure what is the preferred citation methodology for internet arguments, so I'm going to suggest MLA.

That is true, and those efforts should be applauded, but we have a long way to go.  Endowment is probably the #1 largest problem we will have to meet Texas Tier 1 funding.

TCU's endowment is about 5 times the size of ours.  

The Voertman estate just gave the school $10M