Seth Littrell receives extension through 2021

[BTG_Fan1]

We may think that SL is the next Mac, but what was SL original deal? It went through like 2020 or 2021.

Reworking the language, upping the salary in return for a larger buyout among other things is good thing, which we all can assume.

10 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Exactly--I was one of the few that had no problem with given Mac an extension after he had shown the ability to turn this thing around. He took a team that won 8 games in the 4 years before he got here and won 9 games in the first two years he was here, then followed it up with a 9 win season and a HoD Bowl win. He deserved an extension--just not thrilled it was a brand new 5 years deal, probably should have been a couple of season. That said, when things hit the bottom in 2015, and he had to be fired, we paid the bill. Nothing about Seth Littrell getting an extension should change the fact that we MUST be willing to buy off bad coaches just as soon as possible. Benford is the poster child for letting cost dictate what you do for running a program--it just ruins it.

 

11 minutes ago, meanrob said:

Not trying to pick a fight but were you here after Mac's first season? If I remember right the kool-aid was flowing. 

 

[MeanGreenTexan]

15 minutes ago, GOMG2013 said:

As of right now, they both went 5-7 in their first year.  Only difference is Littrell went bowling due to strong grades from Mac's stint.  And Mac had a 9-4 season when he got his extension.  

So until Littrel gets us a 9 win season and a bowl victory, you are right...there is a big difference.

McCarney got an extension for 5 years after his 3rd season... basically extending him for 3 more years past his original 5-yr deal.
Littrell just got an extension for 5 years after his 1st season... basically extending him for 1 more year past his original 5-yr deal.

Much less risk here, especially if buyouts are structured properly both ways (getting hired away by a bigger program, or getting fired), which RV was not very good at.

[Cr1028]

I agree with most of you, I'm a little leary of this too, however I do agree with @BTG_Fan1 that SL and Mac are different. You have to look at the career paths. The P5 schools weren't looking to hire a retread like McCarney so it was foolhardy for RV to give an extension like that to a nearly 60 year old man. Littrell is on the radar of a lot of folks because of the relationships he has built as both a player and coach and at 38 years old many schools will be interested that wouldn't be if he was 58. If he continues to be successful, it will be hard to keep him. Everyone wants to catch that star while its on the rise. I'm hoping that he will be like Johnny Jones and only leave us for his dream job(OU) but that may just be me dreaming.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Cr1028
Thanks Adler

[Harry]

2 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

I agree with most of you, I'm a little leary of this too, however I do agree with @BTG_Fan1 that SL and Mac are different. You have to look at the career paths. The P5 schools weren't looking to hire a retread like McCarney so it was foolhardy for RV to give an extension like that to a nearly 60 year old man. Littrell is on the radar of alot of folks because of the relationships he has built as both a player and coach and at 38 years old many schools will be interested that wouldn't be if he was 58. If he continues to be successful, it will be hard to keep him. Everyone wants to catch that star while its on the rise. I'm hoping that he will be like Johnny Jones and only leave us for his dream job(OU) but that may just be me dreaming.

Well stated.  I hadn't thought about the age and health situation with Mac.  Also a key point is what are the buyout provisions?

[Aldo]

14 minutes ago, Harry said:

Well stated.  I hadn't thought about the age and health situation with Mac.  Also a key point is what are the buyout provisions?

Hope Vito is foia'ing the crap out of that (and the new assistants') contracts

41 minutes ago, GOMG2013 said:

As of right now, they both went 5-7 in their first year.  Only difference is Littrell went bowling due to strong grades from Mac's stint.  And Mac had a 9-4 season when he got his extension.  

So until Littrel gets us a 9 win season and a bowl victory, you are right...there is a big difference.

I totally agree with you here, but as was mentioned, it's essentially a 1 year extension vs Mac's 3 year extension. 

I think it's a money/clause/contract specifics changes, and for Littrell to agree, he needed the year? I dunno just speculatin'.

[untbowler]

sorry but this is not the right time to give Littrell a raise. Did the BOR not watch the final 6 games where he lost 5 of 6 after starting 4/3.

Did they not watch him lose the team in the UTEP debacle, did they not see 1st Year Coach Wilson coach Circles around Littrell.

Sorry but a nice pat on the back and keep moving forward should have sufficed and if some school wanted to take a 5/7 coach off our hands then so be it, instead we continue with the insanity.

[EagleMBA]

This fell along the lines I was thinking and is a positive development. There were other, separate personnel items on the BOR agenda and I'm hoping we get some more positive news when the day is done.

[KingDL1]

2 hours ago, GMG24 said:

In what way?  I think this is a good sign that we have coaches thought of that highly that big schools come in and want them.  

I would just like to see what we pay be more competitive for the assistant coaches so we can attract and maybe hold a bit longer the better ones we have. Didn't Seth take a pay cut to help his assistants out? Was this a righting of that wrong? 

[Cerebus]

I will say that it is common for the assistant pool to be contractually agreed upon in the coaches contract.   Hopefully @Brett Vito can get his hand on a copy of the contract and clue us in.  

[outoftown]

I like SL. However, I don't think I like this unless the only main point is to increase assistant salary pool and recruiting budget. To be afraid he'll get stolen already seems premature. We also do have to weigh the risk of things not turning out the way we currently think they are going. For example: Mac and RVs albatross buyouts are currently hampering the speed with which WB can rebuild. Renegotiating next season would have been early enough.

Edited February 24, 2017 by outoftown

[Cr1028]

27 minutes ago, untbowler said:

sorry but this is not the right time to give Littrell a raise. Did the BOR not watch the final 6 games where he lost 5 of 6 after starting 4/3.

Did they not watch him lose the team in the UTEP debacle, did they not see 1st Year Coach Wilson coach Circles around Littrell.

Sorry but a nice pat on the back and keep moving forward should have sufficed and if some school wanted to take a 5/7 coach off our hands then so be it, instead we continue with the insanity.

Don't forget that Littrell's contract was originally supposed to be close to $1M but he intentionally accepted a lower pay to get better assistants. Maybe we are just making him whole again.

 

Edited February 24, 2017 by Cr1028

[97and03]

2 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

 

Because we're terrible at history?

 

 

Rick

Don't often but totally agree with you.

[GMG24]

7 hours ago, GOMG2013 said:

As of right now, they both went 5-7 in their first year.  Only difference is Littrell went bowling due to strong grades from Mac's stint.  And Mac had a 9-4 season when he got his extension.  

So until Littrel gets us a 9 win season and a bowl victory, you are right...there is a big difference.

Numbers aside, what you saw in their first seasons do you REALLY believe that?  Give Littrell the team McCarney had that 9 win season and I believe you've got a 10 win team. Maybe more. Just my opinion. McCarney motivator, Littrell Football Coach. 

[GOMG2013]

39 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

Numbers aside, what you saw in their first seasons do you REALLY believe that?  Give Littrell the team McCarney had that 9 win season and I believe you've got a 10 win team. Maybe more. Just my opinion. McCarney motivator, Littrell Football Coach. 

Littrell and staff missed a lot with the Xs and Os.  Not sure what fans are seeing.   Our special teams were not as good as they were under mccarney and I'm sure perry did not have as much input as he did under mccarney.  Our special teams made big plays and helped win games before Littrel got here.

Not having a saftey over the top vs a beast like Sutton.  And he was on the belintnicoff list before the season.  Our secondary gave up big plays all year and were no match against good QBs.

The two teams we looked decent against in 2015, UTSA and UTEP we looked bad with Littrel.  Seem liked Litrell and staff completely ignored what was somewhat successful vs those teams the previous year.

Playcalling wasn't as predictable as it was under mccarney, but it was questionable.  I didn't see a great in game coaching performance like some did. They added more passing and brought the corners up.  A move most on this board asked for and would have made.

If we give Littrell and staff, the 2013 team will buyers play corner or WR?  If corner, are they leaving him on an island with no safety?

Littrel still has a lot to prove.  Mac has plenty to bash without taking credit from his 9 win season.  No way am I going to assume Littrel can win 10 games (UNT record?) with ANY team cause he went 5-8 his first year.  

[GMG24]

2 minutes ago, GOMG2013 said:

Littrell and staff missed a lot with the Xs and Os.  Not sure what fans are seeing.   Our special teams were not as good as they were under mccarney and I'm sure perry did not have as much input as he did under mccarney.  Our special teams made big plays and helped win games before Littrel got here.

Not having a saftey over the top vs a beast like Sutton.  And he was on the belintnicoff list before the season.  Our secondary gave up big plays all year and were no match against good QBs.

The two teams we looked decent against in 2015, UTSA and UTEP we looked bad with Littrel.  Seem liked Litrell and staff completely ignored what was somewhat successful vs those teams the previous year.

Playcalling wasn't as predictable as it was under mccarney, but it was questionable.  I didn't see a great in game coaching performance like some did. They added more passing and brought the corners up.  A move most on this board asked for and would have made.

If we give Littrell and staff, the 2013 team will buyers play corner or WR?  If corner, are they leaving him on an island with no safety?

Littrel still has a lot to prove.  Mac has plenty to bash without taking credit from his 9 win season.  No way am I going to assume Littrel can win 10 games (UNT record?) with ANY team cause he went 5-8 his first year.  

With 17 less scholarship players than he's allowed. I'm not trying to be the argumentative guy, but he did that breaking in a true freshman QB who had no other offers, kicking off his top 3 WR options either before or during the season, and suspending another for first game.  I get it, everyone can be skeptical, but when I step back from my bias view of Littrell (I think he I should a badass coach and loyal to his kids) I hear fellow HS coaches talk about how solid he is, what a great coach and football mind he is.  I'm not giving him a pass, but he added a class in a month or so, took remnants of a roster who went 1-11 and got blown out at home to an FCS school and damn near won 6 in regular season (we weren't beating La Tech, Or WKU this year ) and could have gone for 7 in bowl.  Obviously could have should have would have, BUT I'm sold on him and look forward to what next year brings.  Year two has been the best years as far as improvement in his offenses.  

[BTG_Fan1]

8 minutes ago, GOMG2013 said:

Littrell and staff missed a lot with the Xs and Os.  Not sure what fans are seeing.   Our special teams were not as good as they were under mccarney and I'm sure perry did not have as much input as he did under mccarney.  Our special teams made big plays and helped win games before Littrel got here.

Not having a saftey over the top vs a beast like Sutton.  And he was on the belintnicoff list before the season.  Our secondary gave up big plays all year and were no match against good QBs.

The two teams we looked decent against in 2015, UTSA and UTEP we looked bad with Littrel.  Seem liked Litrell and staff completely ignored what was somewhat successful vs those teams the previous year.

Playcalling wasn't as predictable as it was under mccarney, but it was questionable.  I didn't see a great in game coaching performance like some did. They added more passing and brought the corners up.  A move most on this board asked for and would have made.

If we give Littrell and staff, the 2013 team will buyers play corner or WR?  If corner, are they leaving him on an island with no safety?

Littrel still has a lot to prove.  Mac has plenty to bash without taking credit from his 9 win season.  No way am I going to assume Littrel can win 10 games (UNT record?) with ANY team cause he went 5-8 his first year.  

We have no idea if SL took over control of the special teams... if we are just guessing then we could say that Perry was dogging it and that is why parted ways...

Sutton is was graded as a Day 2 pick at worst(Rds 2 or 3) in the NFL draft this year as a RS Sophomore... The kid is a beat no matter what would have happened.

And again its a 1 year extension basically

[GOMG2013]

15 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

With 17 less scholarship players than he's allowed. I'm not trying to be the argumentative guy, but he did that breaking in a true freshman QB who had no other offers, kicking off his top 3 WR options either before or during the season, and suspending another for first game.  I get it, everyone can be skeptical, but when I step back from my bias view of Littrell (I think he I should a badass coach and loyal to his kids) I hear fellow HS coaches talk about how solid he is, what a great coach and football mind he is.  I'm not giving him a pass, but he added a class in a month or so, took remnants of a roster who went 1-11 and got blown out at home to an FCS school and damn near won 6 in regular season (we weren't beating La Tech, Or WKU this year ) and could have gone for 7 in bowl.  Obviously could have should have would have, BUT I'm sold on him and look forward to what next year brings.  Year two has been the best years as far as improvement in his offenses.  

I think littrell is a good coach, but still has a lot to prove.  I consider him a good coach.

In my opinion, He is an improvement over Mac/Chico.  Not sure if Ekler was better than Skladany though.  I think Reffert will be better than Ekler, but I have nothing to base it on other than the possibility of more blitzing.

[GMG24]

4 minutes ago, GOMG2013 said:

I think littrell is a good coach, but still has a lot to prove.  I consider him a good coach.

In my opinion, He is an improvement over Mac/Chico.  Not sure if Ekler was better than Skladany though.  I think Reffert will be better than Ekler, but I have nothing to base it on other than the possibility of more blitzing.

Ref will be a big upgrade over Eck as a DC. 

[GOMG2013]

26 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

We have no idea if SL took over control of the special teams... if we are just guessing then we could say that Perry was dogging it and that is why parted ways...

Sutton is was graded as a Day 2 pick at worst(Rds 2 or 3) in the NFL draft this year as a RS Sophomore... The kid is a beat no matter what would have happened.

And again its a 1 year extension basically

Sutton one on one several times is bad coaching.  Period.  Especially on 3rd and long.  

I don't think Littrell took over special teams.  I just don't think special teams was an emphasis as it was with McCarney.  Even the 1-11 team made plays with the special teams.  

[BTG_Fan1]

Just now, GOMG2013 said:

Sutton one on one several times is bad coaching.  Period.  Especially on 3rd and long.  

I don't think Littrell took over special teams.  I just don't think special teams was an emphasis as it was with McCarney.  Even the 1-11 team made plays with the special teams.  

I wouldn't say it was SL fault.. If anything SL knows the importance of it by brining in just a Special Teams coach and him filling in as RB coach.

And 1 on 1, yes was stupid but it was likely because of a blitz packages. Not making excuses for them because yes it was stupid, but on the Hail-Mary TD, Sutton had 2 or 3 guys on him..

[TIgreen01]

I get that some are worried about history repeating itself, but I don't think the situations with Mac and Littrell are as similar as the records indicate.  By the time we extended Mac we KNEW we were headed for a drop off.  We were graduating all but a couple of key players from that 9 win team and most of our two deep.  As we walked out of the Cotton Bowl I told my buddies that we should retire as UNT fans because we weren't going to have another year like that for AT LEAST 2 years due to all the roster turnover and the fact that we knew Mac had been doing a lousy job recruiting for 3 years at that point (most notably we had NO QB TO SPEAK OF behind DT).

In my mind, RV wasn't totally blind.  He had to know the same thing we all knew...that it was going to take a couple of years to repeat that success and he wanted to protect Mac and help bolster the message that the school was committed to him.  Presumably to help both recruiting and Mac's ability to attract good coaches.  The mistake was in thinking that recruiting was suddenly going to pickup, when it had only shown signs of going downhill.

Its hard to really compare all of that with Litrell.  We've only got one year to go on, but the team appears to be on an upward trajectory.  His recruiting class was widely panned but he's already found one QB who can play and appears to have added at least one more along with a ton of help for the lines.  We really need to see more, but when the staff is raided by sec/Acc schools our hand is forced quite a bit.  This wasn't losing coaches to Memphis.

[Harry]

There is no comparison to Mac and Littrell from a contract renewal perspective.  Mac had some significant health issues which he admirably fought through.  He was a good 15 years older which lets be honest makes a difference in today's coaching circles.  

Honestly the biggest issue is Littrell being snapped up in the next round of head coaching hires.  Would love to keep him for 2-3 years.  We need to make sure his buyout leaves us in a good position for the next hire.  Ark state has been good at this.

[FirefightnRick]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

Honestly the biggest issue is Littrell being snapped up in the next round of head coaching hires. .

 

I just don't get this type of thinking.

 

Rick 

[meanrob]

34 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

 

I just don't get this type of thinking.

 

Rick 

More proof we have the most ignorant fanbase in college athletics.

Arkansas State had to hire four coaches in four years and they're still winning.

Boise State had to hire four coaches in nine years and they are the gold standard for G5s.

If we lose a coach who won five games, the world falls apart. This kind of thinking is why RV was here so damn long. 

[JesseMartin]

I think it's weird that anyone thinks that a big turnaround and a bowl game wouldn't warrant a one year extension. Winning seasons, championships and bowl wins over the course of multiple years can all certainly warrant a longer extension...but saying, "great start, here's another year and a salary bump" is too much? That just seems odd, even from every angle given thus far.