DRC source: Former Guyer, ASU WR has interest in UNT

[BTG_Fan1]

1 hour ago, drex said:

Yep, the future is today.

We gotta remember we will have a lot of youth at WR with us losing Buyers, TT, Goree, and Robinson.. Guyton helps with Smiley but after that we have a bunch of younger guys that are Soph, RS Freshman or Freshman. Gotta weigh risk of having a lot of youth out there. Also, another guy with size like Jefferson is good as well. But either he comes in as a PWO(which I think is unlikely) or we count him vs 2017 if we can. We have Hood counting vs the 2017 class and he was a 1 and done

48 minutes ago, Harry said:

I hope this works out for all involved but I would suggest we set up a process to evaluate each opportunity that arises based on its merits.  What I don't want to see is UNT become a easy scholarship continuation subsidy for those who couldn't make things work at their original choice.  If they can provide us value and have a burning desire to compete we should welcome them with open arms.  I agree with UNT Jim that this is a no brainer strategy for UNT and should be a great way to accumulate talent into the program.  I just want to be careful that this is in the best interest of our program.

Best interest would be finding ways to have guys not hurt vs next years class. As great as Hood was, he counted vs the 2017 class. If we bring in Jefferson it should be vs the 2017 class so he is off the books and that slot is open for the 2018 class with us having 5 Blue-shirts already against the 2018 class.

Also, WR is a place that we needed more depth there last year and with losing 4 of our Top WRs, bringing in Jefferson would help with the development of the younger guys. ASU has developed WRs and recruited them as well. Jefferson class had a guy go in the 2nd or 3rd round to Houston, and they landed a STUD freshman WR last year. If we bring in Jefferson, we have to let him play and not pull him like we did Morris. Morris played well in that HoD bowl, along with the Southern Miss game as well.

9 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

I would assume he is an X or Z receiver on the outside.  I assume our top 5/6 outside guys as of now include Guyton, Bussey, Smiley, McIntyre, Rutherford, and Wilson.  The question is whether or not Littrell believes this guy will step in an immediately crack the 2 deep.  Who is he going to beat out?  Last year at ASU he was playing behind a true freshman (albeit borderline 5 star recruit that led team in receptions and 2nd on team in yards).

He certainly has the size we need on the outside.  Not sure he has the elite speed that we need and lack of production is certainly a concern.  However, sometimes a change of scenery and mom's cooking can do a world of good.

I think someone said he(Jefferson) ran a 4.5 out of Guyer.

But I would think Guyton and Smiley should be viewed as 1 and 2, with Rico and Wilson as 3 and 4 in terms of who are the best WRs.. but to me, I'd love to add see them get all 4 of theses guy out there at the same time if possible.

We saw last year injuries and suspense's hurt the depth. The real question is do they believe in the guys like Boyd, Lawerence, on top of incomers like White, the kid from Houston, etc.

[Withers940]

I say, Welcome back to Denton Mr Jefferson and lets go win some football games! Why not take a chance? If he's awesome, then job well done and if not, then its just one year and he's gone.

http://247sports.com/Player/Ellis-Jefferson-193?Institution=20899

 

[BTG_Fan1]

2 hours ago, Withers940 said:

I say, Welcome back to Denton Mr Jefferson and lets go win some football games! Why not take a chance? If he's awesome, then job well done and if not, then its just one year and he's gone.

http://247sports.com/Player/Ellis-Jefferson-193?Institution=20899

 

I'd think the only thing that holds it up is about the scholarship... Maybe the staff is waiting to grab a HS guy that is a late qualifier in may?

[MeanGreen_MBA]

21 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

I'd think the only thing that holds it up is about the scholarship... Maybe the staff is waiting to grab a HS guy that is a late qualifier in may?

can we pull a private school scam and put him on some sort of academic scholly?

[Withers940]

Could be one of those "Walk On" offers

 

[Rudy]

Are we seriously debating on whether or not we'd want a 3* graduate transfer from a PAC 12 school at a position that we need, who is interested?

[Cr1028]

9 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Agree Harry.
Let's not forget the last two "big time" WR transfers from P5 schools that came to UNT:
Tyler Stradford - borderline contributor at best, who wound up impaling himself on a fence trying to escape from a dog. 
Darius Terrell - borderline contributor at best.
Transferring from a P5 school does not make one a game-changer at UNT.   

I don't think Darius Terrell was given an opportunity to be successful. In '13, the lion's share of the passes went to Brelan and Darnell Smith. In '14, there were 80 fewer completions to go around but he was still our 2nd leading receiver behind Mini's favorite target.

[Mean Green 93-98]

6 hours ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

can we pull a private school scam and put him on some sort of academic scholly?

Scholarship money directed towards a football player counts as a football scholarship.  Even if he plays another sport and is awarded a scholarship in that sport, it counts as a football scholarship.

[MeanGreenZen]

How many grad transfers have ever REALLY worked out for us?

Alec Morris had a one decent game in the bowl loss but was overall a disappointment who couldn't beat out a 5 foot 10 true freshman.

Demonte Hood was a rotation player, but I can't think of any WOW plays he ever made.

What other grad transfers have we had?

I remember a safety a few years ago from Syracuse (?) but that guy ended up being a backup here who didn't really contribute.

I agree that if they aren't productive at a P5 then they won't be productive here.

When I think of the transfers (from P5 or juco) that have landed here and made an impact: Marcus Trice (played as true freshman at OU) Courtney Finney (Juco Player of Year) Michael Pruitt (JUCO All America): they are guys who were PRODUCTIVE at their previous school. Which is also a reason I am so hyped about getting Jalen Guyton (a 1,000-yard receiver in JUCO) for 3 years of eligibility. 

I would invite Jefferson as a PWO, but you can't use a scholarship that could help your program for 5 years on a 1-and-done average WR.

[MeanGreenTexan]

12 hours ago, Rudy said:

Are we seriously debating on whether or not we'd want a 3* graduate transfer from a PAC 12 school at a position that we need, who is interested?

People keep referencing his rating out of high school.  The 3* rating coming out of high school does not mean much anymore now that he's played 3 seasons.  The rating system is great for evaluating guys straight out of high school.  It doesn't help much after they've played 3 seasons of college ball already.

It goes back to the argument about judging recruiting classes 4 years AFTER they sign.   Of course that's the best way, because you've actually SEEN the guys play for 3 or 4 years.    On that front, Jefferson's production at ASU was pedestrian.   It's just not wise to assume he would do much more here.

Again, the trepidation is not around wanting/not wanting the guy here.   It's around using one of our 25/yr-allocated scholarships on a guy that will only be here 1 year, instead of using that same scholarship on a guy that could be here 4 years.  The reason this is such an issue is because OUR ROSTER IS ALREADY VERY DEPLETED.

Again, again, if the staff evaluates him and thinks he can contribute to winning this year, bring him in and win.  Don't worry about the future scholarships.
If they evaluate him and think he won't help much, or would need time to learn the system, etc... anything that would keep him from contributing to wins from day 1, don't bring him in and save your scholarship for someone who can.  Or, someone who has 4 years to play, and so has time to learn your system and contribute later.

[TreeFiddy]

17 minutes ago, MeanGreenZen said:

How many grad transfers have ever REALLY worked out for us?

Alec Morris had a one decent game in the bowl loss but was overall a disappointment who couldn't beat out a 5 foot 10 true freshman.

Demonte Hood was a rotation player, but I can't think of any WOW plays he ever made.

What other grad transfers have we had?

I remember a safety a few years ago from Syracuse (?) but that guy ended up being a backup here who didn't really contribute.

I agree that if they aren't productive at a P5 then they won't be productive here.

When I think of the transfers (from P5 or juco) that have landed here and made an impact: Marcus Trice (played as true freshman at OU) Courtney Finney (Juco Player of Year) Michael Pruitt (JUCO All America): they are guys who were PRODUCTIVE at their previous school. Which is also a reason I am so hyped about getting Jalen Guyton (a 1,000-yard receiver in JUCO) for 3 years of eligibility. 

I would invite Jefferson as a PWO, but you can't use a scholarship that could help your program for 5 years on a 1-and-done average WR.

Additional recent examples:  Jareid Combs was 2 year starter, Joshua Wheeler was starter last year and projected starter this year, Eric Jenkins was part time starter last year and expected to start next year.  Sam Rice was 2 year starter, TJ Henson was starter last year and is expected to start next year, Trey Keenan was a starter, Dee Baulkman listed first on depth chart at nickel and split time with Preston last year.  

While these guys may not have been all conference level players, evidently they were better than the guys behind them.

Keep in mind that if a scholarship is used on Jefferson, we get to reuse the scholarship the following year. If the coaches believe that he is better than our current depth chart then he should probably be brought in.  If not, then it might be better to use the scholly on another player that can help somewhere else next year or avoid using a 2018 scholly by using a 2017 spot on one of the blueshirt recruits.

[MeanGreenTexan]

10 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

Additional recent examples:  Jareid Combs was 2 year starter, Joshua Wheeler was starter last year and projected starter this year, Eric Jenkins was part time starter last year and expected to start next year.  Sam Rice was 2 year starter, TJ Henson was starter last year and is expected to start next year, Trey Keenan was a starter, Dee Baulkman listed first on depth chart at nickel and split time with Preston last year.  

While these guys may not have been all conference level players, evidently they were better than the guys behind them.

Keep in mind that if a scholarship is used on Jefferson, we get to reuse the scholarship the following year. If the coaches believe that he is better than our current depth chart then he should probably be brought in.  If not, then it might be better to use the scholly on another player that can help somewhere else next year or avoid using a 2018 scholly by using a 2017 spot on one of the blueshirt recruits.

You only get 25 scholarships to hand out each year.  Period.  Giving one to Jefferson takes one of those.   You get to use the same 25 scholarships the following year.  You're not backfilling Jefferson, or we would not have the roster problem we have now... we would just backfill everyone who's eligibility is up.   That's not the way it works.

And with Dodge taking JUCO-heavy classes during his last 2 years here, and McCarney offering scholarships to just about any walk-on with a pulse, those 25/yr scholarships trimmed the roster down to a very low number because those guys were not around for 4 years.   Now, Littrell is using blueshirts against the future to build up the roster now.   Basically, Littrell is using a recruiting credit card.  The roster size is dangerously low.  We cannot just bring a guy in for 1 year if he's not going to contribute at a high level for that 1 year.

Also, I don't believe we can blueshirt Jefferson because he would count towards the 2018 class, but not have eligibility that year.   Correct me if I'm wrong @BillySee58.  So, do we even have a 2017 scholarship to offer him?

[GrandGreen]

This thread has morphed from a discussion of the merits of graduate transfers to all transfers.   Sure there are lots of jucos and major college transfers that have greatly contributed.  Graduate transfers are a somewhat new development.  Morris and Hood are good examples, neither were much of a factor at their previous colleges; but turned into valuable pieces at NT.   

Jefferson just like any other potential recruit, should be evaluated and if the staff think he is good enough to be a key part of the wr rotation worth using a 2018 ship than sign him.  I doubt Jefferson is going to be in high demand, so I would definitely explore the walk on option.   

[UNTLifer]

33 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

The roster size is dangerously low.  

I count 99 players on the current roster and that does not include the most current recruiting class.  Is our roster that much smaller than our conference opponents?  How many do we need to not be dangerously low?

[MGNation92]

4 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I count 99 players on the current roster and that does not include the most current recruiting class.  Is our roster that much smaller than our conference opponents?  How many do we need to not be dangerously low?

I think he's referring to scholarship players. There's a max of 85, and I believe we're closer to the 75 mark

[MeanGreenTexan]

6 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I count 99 players on the current roster and that does not include the most current recruiting class.  Is our roster that much smaller than our conference opponents?  How many do we need to not be dangerously low?

Your total roster can have 105 guys.  There are a lot of fill-in walk-on guys on the roster.  I'm guessing the missing 6 players are the blueshirt guys (however many that is) and whatever scholarships (if any) Littrell pocketed for the 2017 class for late-qualifiers/transfers (ie: Jefferson).
You can have 85 guys on scholarship.   I believe last year we were playing with 60-something guys on scholarship.  That is very very low in the grand scheme (FCS schools have a 63-scholarship limit.  We were playing closer to that level than FBS).   Your scholarship guys are your contributors (they're better players, so they demand a scholarship to play).

Littrell is trying to re-build the roster size up to 85 scholarship guys.  He's expediting that process by borrowing against the future right now (blueshirts).
Spending one of your 25/yr on a guy who will only be here for 1 year does not help that cause.  But if the staff thinks Jefferson can play and be an immediate contributor, I would not be upset if they used a scholarship on him.

[97and03]

I think one and done grad transfers are a part of SL's plan to win now. I would expect 1-2 each year. 

[Mean Green 93-98]

2 hours ago, MeanGreenZen said:

How many grad transfers have ever REALLY worked out for us?

Alec Morris had a one decent game in the bowl loss but was overall a disappointment who couldn't beat out a 5 foot 10 true freshman.

Demonte Hood was a rotation player, but I can't think of any WOW plays he ever made.

What other grad transfers have we had?

I'm not sure if we've had any other, so it's a pretty small sample size.  And I would say that both those guys were worth a 'ship.  Part of the fact that they didn't contribute as much had to do with other guys stepping up--Fine greatly exceeding expectations when he showed up on campus, and Roderick Young being pretty much "unblockable," as SL said.  But they did provide valuable contributions when needed.  I don't know that we need this guy to have 1000 yards receiving and 15 TDs to make him worth a 'ship.  But if he can make a few key plays, help take coverage away from other receivers, and help mentor a very young WR corps, then he might be worth it.

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 minute ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

I'm not sure if we've had any other, so it's a pretty small sample size.  And I would say that both those guys were worth a 'ship.  Part of the fact that they didn't contribute as much had to do with other guys stepping up--Fine greatly exceeding expectations when he showed up on campus, and Roderick Young being pretty much "unblockable," as SL said.  But they did provide valuable contributions when needed.  I don't know that we need this guy to have 1000 yards receiving and 15 TDs to make him worth a 'ship.  But if he can make a few key plays, help take coverage away from other receivers, and help mentor a very young WR corps, then he might be worth it.

Right.   I don't think the expectation should be All-conference or bust.  

But this stat line simply will not do, and is nowhere near worthy of using a scholarship:
 

SEASON	REC	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	ATT	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD
2016	2	21	10.5	12	0	0	0	0.0	0	0

[TreeFiddy]

2 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Right.   I don't think the expectation should be All-conference or bust.  

But this stat line simply will not do, and is nowhere near worthy of using a scholarship:
 

SEASON	REC	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	ATT	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD
2016	2	21	10.5	12	0	0	0	0.0	0	0

I don't know.  @emmitt01 might put his jersey in the rafters.

 

 

[Mean Green 93-98]

Just now, MeanGreenTexan said:

Right.   I don't think the expectation should be All-conference or bust.  

But this stat line simply will not do, and is nowhere near worthy of using a scholarship:
 

SEASON	REC	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	ATT	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD
2016	2	21	10.5	12	0	0	0	0.0	0	0

Oh, I agree.  But I don't know that he was completely incapable of making a play, or what kind of talent he was sitting behind on the depth chart.  If he was targeted twice all season, that's not a bad stat line.  Unless one of the sleuths here on the board wants to do more digging, I'll have to trust SL and his staff to do due diligence to determine if he can contribute more here in a different system and with a different roster.

[MeanGreenTexan]

9 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

Oh, I agree.  But I don't know that he was completely incapable of making a play, or what kind of talent he was sitting behind on the depth chart.  If he was targeted twice all season, that's not a bad stat line.  Unless one of the sleuths here on the board wants to do more digging, I'll have to trust SL and his staff to do due diligence to determine if he can contribute more here in a different system and with a different roster.

If he was targeted twice all season, there's likely a reason for that:  He's not as good as your other players.    
What I find odd, is that his RS Fr year appears to be his best season.  After that, it goes downhill to the point where he only appeared in 3 games last year accumulating the above stat line.

[southsideguy]

3 hours ago, MeanGreenZen said:

How many grad transfers have ever REALLY worked out for us?

Alec Morris had a one decent game in the bowl loss but was overall a disappointment who couldn't beat out a 5 foot 10 true freshman.

Demonte Hood was a rotation player, but I can't think of any WOW plays he ever made.

What other grad transfers have we had?

I remember a safety a few years ago from Syracuse (?) but that guy ended up being a backup here who didn't really contribute.

I agree that if they aren't productive at a P5 then they won't be productive here.

When I think of the transfers (from P5 or juco) that have landed here and made an impact: Marcus Trice (played as true freshman at OU) Courtney Finney (Juco Player of Year) Michael Pruitt (JUCO All America): they are guys who were PRODUCTIVE at their previous school. Which is also a reason I am so hyped about getting Jalen Guyton (a 1,000-yard receiver in JUCO) for 3 years of eligibility. 

I would invite Jefferson as a PWO, but you can't use a scholarship that could help your program for 5 years on a 1-and-done average WR.

trice

[gangrene]

I don't get all the negativity and debating on whether we should accept him.  The kid should be applauded for earning his degree and staying out of trouble.  I, for one, would welcome him to UNT, even if it means giving up a scholarship.  So he hasn't had a great college career thus far?  Guess what? Neither has any of our current class of HS recruits.  And, without being too negative myself, this was one of the least impressive recruiting classes I've seen.

If he comes to play at UNT and has a big season, that's great.  If he comes to play at UNT and stands on the sideline, that's still great.  Why? We let a hometown kid come home to UNT and finish out his college football career.  And we can use all the UNT ambassadors we can get, in respect to Denton ISD, and other area school districts.

[Mean Green 93-98]

40 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

If he was targeted twice all season, there's likely a reason for that:  He's not as good as your other players.    

Exactly.  That's what I meant about sitting behind talent on the depth chart.  The question then becomes of where "not as good as other WRs on the Arizona State roster" places one on our present WR talent spectrum.