MGB: Saturday scrimmage notes

[Brett Vito]

MGB:

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2016/08/saturday-scrimmage-notes-thoughts.html/

[Wag Tag]

16 minutes ago, Brett Vito said:

MGB:

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2016/08/saturday-scrimmage-notes-thoughts.html/

It is sooooo nice to hear positive reports on our Qbs instead of who made the fewest mistakes! Is the D line becoming a strength instead of a weakness? Coach has talked highly of that unit! "F"udge Potential! GMG 

[UNT90]

Actually, @Brett Vito Littrell said in the fan meeting, in a direct response to a question about Fine, that the most talented players would play, regardless of college grade. I assume that would also translate to backup QB positions...

So he was either coach speaking you or coach speaking us...

[KingDL1]

Was the place kicking any better today? 

[greenminer]

56 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Actually, @Brett Vito Littrell said in the fan meeting, in a direct response to a question about Fine, that the most talented players would play, regardless of college grade. I assume that would also translate to backup QB positions...

So he was either coach speaking you or coach speaking us...

he didn't say the best players won't be on the field...so, I don't see a contradiction here.

Historically, coaches have legitimate cases for redshirting talented freshman to build for the future.  It's actually a good problem to have. I think I can understand some Mean Green paranoia about the situation given how pathetic our previous staff was about handling the position.

At the end of the day, I'll hold Litrell to wins-losses, and not words. I have a gut feeling that if this ship doesn't get righted, it will be because of the other side of the ball.

[UNT90]

2 hours ago, greenminer said:

he didn't say the best players won't be on the field...so, I don't see a contradiction here.

Historically, coaches have legitimate cases for redshirting talented freshman to build for the future.  It's actually a good problem to have. I think I can understand some Mean Green paranoia about the situation given how pathetic our previous staff was about handling the position.

At the end of the day, I'll hold Litrell to wins-losses, and not words. I have a gut feeling that if this ship doesn't get righted, it will be because of the other side of the ball.

I see what you did there.

Also, I think he probably told Brett he would prefer to redshirt freshman. Hell, everyone would. But if Morris goes down game 2 or 3, Littrell will play the best QB, even if he doesn't like it.

[Christopher Walker]

15 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Actually, @Brett Vito Littrell said in the fan meeting, in a direct response to a question about Fine, that the most talented players would play, regardless of college grade. I assume that would also translate to backup QB positions...

So he was either coach speaking you or coach speaking us...

He did say that, but you may be ignoring the terms he spoke of at length concerning...

11 hours ago, UNT90 said:

I see what you did there.

Also, I think he probably told Brett he would prefer to redshirt freshman. Hell, everyone would. But if Morris goes down game 2 or 3, Littrell will play the best QB, even if he doesn't like it.

...fairness.

He said it is not fair to ask an 18 yo who is just beginning to adjust to college life then be thrust with the mantle and pressure of starting QB. Littrell indicated that this can lead to whole new subset of problems few anticipate. [Paging the Manziel family. Reality, paging the Manziels.]

But, like you and he said, that's his preference and he will still play his best available players at any time.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Christopher Walker

[UNT90]

5 minutes ago, Christopher Walker said:

He did say that, but you may be ignoring the terms he spoke of at length concerning...

...fairness.

He said it is not fair to ask an 18 yo who is just beginning to adjust to college life then be thrust with the mantle and pressure of starting QB. Littrell indicated that this can lead to whole new subset of problems few anticipate. [Paging the Manziel family. Reality, paging the Manziels.]

But, like you and he said, that's his preference and he will still play his best available players at any time.

Manzel was headed down that road regardless of his success. He didn't exactly win the parenting lottery. Perfect example of how being rich doesn't make you a good parent. 

Obviously you would like to have the talent in place in order to be able to redshirt a promising freshmen. If Mirris goes down, UNT doesn't have that luxury and I'd bet Fine sees the field in that situation. 

Edited August 21, 2016 by UNT90

[oldguystudent]

I also specifically remember him talking about the perils of putting a true freshman QB in the lineup.  

15 hours ago, KingDL1 said:

Was the place kicking any better today? 

I've seen this mentioned a couple times.  Are we in for another year like we had with Jeremy Knott Good?

[MEANGREENCOACH2]

Trevor Moore was struggling yesterday!! These field goals were 30+ yards out but they were misses

[SilverEagle]

4 hours ago, Christopher Walker said:

He did say that, but you may be ignoring the terms he spoke of at length concerning...

...fairness.

He said it is not fair to ask an 18 yo who is just beginning to adjust to college life then be thrust with the mantle and pressure of starting QB. Littrell indicated that this can lead to whole new subset of problems few anticipate. [Paging the Manziel family. Reality, paging the Manziels.]

But, like you and he said, that's his preference and he will still play his best available players at any time.

Ok, if he really believes that, then why is he giving Mr. Fine twice (or more) reps with the first/second team than he is giving O'hara and Shanbour. It seems to me that if he really doesn't want Fine to get out on the field this year then give O'Hara and Shanbour more "rep" time so that they are more ready to take over if Morris gets hurt. 

So, he says it's not fair, but yet he keeps putting him back out there more and more during scrimmages. 

What he needs to say is "I'd rather not put a true freshman out there, but I will if he's my best option should anything take Morris out of the game". 

[MeanGreenTexan]

Is this what we're worried about?
" Littrell is on record saying he doesn’t want to play a freshman quarterback. "

There's a difference between "doesn't want to" and "has to".  

If Fine gives us the best chance to win a game, he needs to play, be it week 1 VS SMU, or the 4th quarter of our final game of the season.  Otherwise, if you have the luxury to redshirt Fine, then you obviously do it.

 

[UNT90]

2 hours ago, MEANGREENCOACH2 said:

Trevor Moore was struggling yesterday!! These field goals were 30+ yards out but they were misses

I wonder what happened to Moore between his freshman and Sophmore years. If he can't pull it together, UNT may need to look at other options.

7 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Is this what we're worried about?
" Littrell is on record saying he doesn’t want to play a freshman quarterback. "

There's a difference between "doesn't want to" and "has to".  

If Fine gives us the best chance to win a game, he needs to play, be it week 1 VS SMU, or the 4th quarter of our final game of the season.  Otherwise, if you have the luxury to redshirt Fine, then you obviously do it.

 

And this is what I took Littrell's comments to mean.

[UNT 90 Grad]

3 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Is this what we're worried about?
" Littrell is on record saying he doesn’t want to play a freshman quarterback. "

There's a difference between "doesn't want to" and "has to".  

If Fine gives us the best chance to win a game, he needs to play, be it week 1 VS SMU, or the 4th quarter of our final game of the season.  Otherwise, if you have the luxury to redshirt Fine, then you obviously do it.

 

I agree in general, but if it's the 4th quarter of the final game and winning the game doesn't have any substantial significance (i.e. we are more than one game out of bowl contention), I'm "fine" with risking losing the game to avoid burning a year of eligibility.

[BillySee58]

One thing I've said before is that it's incorrect to think short QBs need more time to develop. Look at a lot of short QBs who were good enough to play on the FBS level, and a lot of the ones who play do so early on. Bogenschutz played as a true freshman, Rakeem Cato started as a true freshman, Kellen Moore and Brent Stockstill started as RS Freshmen. All guys 6' or shorter.

If a player is good enough to get a scholarship at that height, then he has to be well-developed and productive by the end of his high school career. He actually has to be a good football player, and not just someone who could be one day. A 6'4" QB does not have to be well-developed or productive to get an FBS scholarship. If Fine is going to be a productive FBS-level player, we're likely going to see proof early on anyways.

[UNT90]

46 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

Ok, if he really believes that, then why is he giving Mr. Fine twice (or more) reps with the first/second team than he is giving O'hara and Shanbour. It seems to me that if he really doesn't want Fine to get out on the field this year then give O'Hara and Shanbour more "rep" time so that they are more ready to take over if Morris gets hurt. 

So, he says it's not fair, but yet he keeps putting him back out there more and more during scrimmages. 

What he needs to say is "I'd rather not put a true freshman out there, but I will if he's my best option should anything take Morris out of the game". 

And that is pretty much what I recall him saying when asked directly about Fine. The direct quote I believe was "the best players are going to play."

[Christopher Walker]

10 hours ago, MEANGREENCOACH2 said:

Trevor Moore was struggling yesterday!! These field goals were 30+ yards out but they were misses

I blame it on this from last year: http://ntdaily.com/athletic-prowess-separates-sophomore-kicker-trevor-moore-from-stereotype/

The more he bulked up, the worse his technique became... Come on adopted son, get it together!

------

Also, i think we're all agreed and basically saying the same things regarding Littrell and Fine.

[UNT90]

16 hours ago, UNT 90 Grad said:

I agree in general, but if it's the 4th quarter of the final game and winning the game doesn't have any substantial significance (i.e. we are more than one game out of bowl contention), I'm "fine" with risking losing the game to avoid burning a year of eligibility.

Someone remembers Derek Thompson vs Arkansas St.

I've often wondered how different that 2014 team would have been with a 5th year senior Derek Thompson at the helm.

Too bad Dodge followed the longstanding UNT tradition of protecting yourself before protecting your programs. 

Let's hope today is a beginning to an end of that gawdforsaken tradition at UNT.

[Mean_Green09]

16 hours ago, UNT90 said:

I wonder what happened to Moore between his freshman and Sophmore years. If he can't pull it together, UNT may need to look at other options.

They dont have another option worth looking at right now. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

6 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Someone remembers Derek Thompson vs Arkansas St.

I've often wondered how different that 2014 team would have been with a 5th year senior Derek Thompson at the helm.

Too bad Dodge followed the longstanding UNT tradition of protecting yourself before protecting your programs. 

Let's hope today is a beginning to an end of that gawdforsaken tradition at UNT.

He wouldn't have received that extra year of eligibility because he was injured and used his redshirt in 2010.

I've been on record as saying the 2009 burning of Thompson's redshirt was a good decision by Dodge because he was trying to win:

[Mean_Green09]

16 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

One thing I've said before is that it's incorrect to think short QBs need more time to develop. Look at a lot of short QBs who were good enough to play on the FBS level, and a lot of the ones who play do so early on. Bogenschutz played as a true freshman, Rakeem Cato started as a true freshman, Kellen Moore and Brent Stockstill started as RS Freshmen. All guys 6' or shorter.

If a player is good enough to get a scholarship at that height, then he has to be well-developed and productive by the end of his high school career. He actually has to be a good football player, and not just someone who could be one day. A 6'4" QB does not have to be well-developed or productive to get an FBS scholarship. If Fine is going to be a productive FBS-level player, we're likely going to see proof early on anyways.

Im not disagreeing with you. I think Fine can play right now and win games as the QB.

I DONT think he can survive a full season as the QB. My main concern would be the OL protecting him. 

I DO think he should be the backup QB and should see reps should Morris get hurt or we blow someone out.

I really dont care about RS him. If we get to a point in the season where we arent making a bowl game I'd like to see him start. 

IMO in game experience out weighs the benefits of sitting a year.

Id feel more comfortable about our QB situation next year if Fine saw some time this year.

[UNT90]

7 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

He wouldn't have received that extra year of eligibility because he was injured and used his redshirt in 2010.

I've been on record as saying the 2009 burning of Thompson's redshirt was a good decision by Dodge because he was trying to win:

Yep, forgot about the redshirt injury season.

But I disagree on playing him vs A St. Terrible terrible move.

15 minutes ago, Mean_Green09 said:

They dont have another option worth looking at right now. 

That's not good. At all. 

[keith]

Personally not a fan of the redshirt.   Students are supposed to complete their college education in 4 years not 5 and there's no guarantee they will even be around four years (quit, injured, don't make the grades, hanging around Wal-Mart, etc.).  We should make a commitment to the player and his parents to get him in and out of school in four years.  The redshirt season is basically a wasted year of eligibility IMHO (Joey Byerly anyone?).  If you got 'em, play 'em. 

[SilverEagle]

I did not see T. Thompson (#11) either out on the field or on the sideline. The same for Mr. Hair-Griffin (#82). What's up that that?

 

Also, is this young man going to be playing this year? He's a transfer from Howard Payne, and he looked pretty good out there running the ball.

http://www.meangreensports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/christian_hosley_1023123.html

 

[buff64]

22 hours ago, oldguystudent said:

I also specifically remember him talking about the perils of putting a true freshman QB in the lineup.  

I've seen this mentioned a couple times.  Are we in for another year like we had with Jeremy Knott Good?

Looks like UT will start a true freshman at QB this year, Shane Buchele.