I have changed my mind I think UNT90 may be wrong

[KingDL1]

I have been away from the board for a while the negativity the constant reminder that RV has not been show the door was more depressing than I needed. It seems  one thing leads to another, even though I was trying to get away from this mess I have been hearing more and more from people in know and what would be considered Denton insiders. If true? It is worst than UNT90 thought, well at least a lot worse than I thought. I don't think it is RV at all, I think it is, from what I can tell, a handful of donors playing Jerry Jones, They are only big fish in a small pond (they really like it), and it is not that they support RV but they actually control RV and pull his strings. Rick is simply a puppet, a stooge, a lackey, just a pawn in this show.  This situation has become so inbred that it is hard to fathom that it can be fixed. I don't know how North Texas Athletics got to this place but it had to start with RV being incapable and mostly spineless, could be a the chicken or the egg situation but we are there now. 

Can we fire Donors?

Can a president come in and replace this puppet to solve this situation?

It is a problem and we need some of these guys to just go away. This is a prime example of Money does not mean you have brains.

We need ofcourse a good hire at AD with a good house cleaning in the whole Athletic Department. Then we need Donors that believe in him and let this new AD do his thing, not play puppet master. 

I am more disgusted than ever, it is nearly defeating to me to hear some of what goes on in Denton. 

If any of the puppet masters are reading this, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM! 

[UNT90]

I don't think we disagree that much. With RV gone, these people lose their personal play toy. They do love RV more than UNT, but it's because they get to control him, like you said. Hence the knee jerk coaching hires with very little thought given to them. 

It's dysfuntional, it's small time, it's a massive failure, and those people don't care because they get to play with their toy. And they don't care how many times they break it.

Edited April 8, 2016 by UNT90

[eulessismore]

15 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

I have been away from the board for a while the negativity the constant reminder that RV has not been show the door was more depressing than I needed. It seems  one thing leads to another, even though I was trying to get away from this mess I have been hearing more and more from people in know and what would be considered Denton insiders. If true? It is worst than UNT90 thought, well at least a lot worse than I thought. I don't think it is RV at all, I think it is, from what I can tell, a handful of donors playing Jerry Jones, They are only big fish in a small pond (they really like it), and it is not that they support RV but they actually control RV and pull his strings. Rick is simply a puppet, a stooge, a lackey, just a pawn in this show.  This situation has become so inbred that it is hard to fathom that it can be fixed. I don't know how North Texas Athletics got to this place but it had to start with RV being incapable and mostly spineless, could be a the chicken or the egg situation but we are there now. 

Can we fire Donors?

Can a president come in and replace this puppet to solve this situation?

It is a problem and we need some of these guys to just go away. This is a prime example of Money does not mean you have brains.

We need ofcourse a good hire at AD with a good house cleaning in the whole Athletic Department. Then we need Donors that believe in him and let this new AD do his thing, not play puppet master. 

I am more disgusted than ever, it is nearly defeating to me to hear some of what goes on in Denton. 

If any of the puppet masters are reading this, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM! 

Tony, it's great to see you back!  I actually do think Littrell will turn out to be a great hire, but I'm not going to give R.V. credit for it one way or the other.  My takeaway from work?  I always outlast those who have been roadblocks to progress.  The key is to keep plugging away and have the means and method to capitalize on the energy stirred up by their departure.

[KingDL1]

This leads to such a dilemma, if we get too successful it could lead to more and bigger donors. If RV did his job it would lead to more and bigger donors. Which means our puppet masters become smaller fish in a bigger pond.

 

Puppet masters no likey.

 

To keep their control they need to keep North Texas Sports relatively stable at our current level of winning and losing. 

[Mean Green 93-98]

If you're going to make comments like that, you really ought to be more specific.  If not for them, we'd be guaranteed at least 2 (probably 3) more seasons of Dan McCarney.  And we would have been far more limited in who we could hire this time around.  There are many other positive things that their contributions have made possible.  So they have certainly done some good things for UNT athletics.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but you had better bring a whole lot more specifics and evidence to the table if you're going to be publicly lambasting them like that.

[KingDL1]

1 minute ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

If you're going to make comments like that, you really ought to be more specific.  If not for them, we'd be guaranteed at least 2 (probably 3) more seasons of Dan McCarney.  And we would have been far more limited in who we could hire this time around.  There are many other positive things that their contributions have made possible.  So they have certainly done some good things for UNT athletics.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but you had better bring a whole lot more specifics and evidence to the table if you're going to be publicly lambasting them like that.

I wish I could but it would out people and cause more problems.I am sure a ton of denieal and spin. White knights would come out of the wood work and on and on.  The stuff I was told if true and I do believe it is, just blew my mind. It kind of really made me lose hope in a way that truly hit my core a new low for my Mean Green spirit.

 

I hope Dwayne is right and  Littrell  pulls a miracle out of his ass. That may help get others involved to break the circle. Sorry I am just disheartened. 

[UTSA Fan]

17

[KingDL1]

Just now, UTSA Fan said:

17

I don't know the actual number, the 17 is an interesting topic but I got the impression it might be a bit tighter group yet. Not sure really just nauseous now a couple of names were referred to the most over the different conversations.  

[UNT90]

15 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

If you're going to make comments like that, you really ought to be more specific.  If not for them, we'd be guaranteed at least 2 (probably 3) more seasons of Dan McCarney.  And we would have been far more limited in who we could hire this time around.  There are many other positive things that their contributions have made possible.  So they have certainly done some good things for UNT athletics.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but you had better bring a whole lot more specifics and evidence to the table if you're going to be publicly lambasting them like that.

Well, Fky promised basketball accountability. How's that working out for you? Fly is solid as granite behind his best friend Rick Villarreal. He has said so on many many many many occasions on this board. He has also told us our money doesn't matter. Don't forget that little gem. 

UNT will be FCS inside of 5 years unless there is a drastic change of culture. There hasn't been in 40 years, why would there be now? Smatresk has certainly shown no interest in getting involved to solve any of the multiple AD issues. The BOR doesn't care. 

Maybe UNT can join the NM St/Idaho conference.

 

[Ben Gooding]

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

Well, Fky promised basketball accountability. How's that working out for you? Fly is solid as granite behind his best friend Rick Villarreal. He has said so on many many many many occasions on this board. He has also told us our money doesn't matter. Don't forget that little gem. 

UNT will be FCS inside of 5 years unless there is a drastic change of culture. There hasn't been in 40 years, why would there be now? Smatresk has certainly shown no interest in getting involved to solve any of the multiple AD issues. The BOR doesn't care. 

Maybe UNT can join the NM St/Idaho conference.

 

We'll soon be there. Give it time. And when that does happen the artsy fartsys and horn tooters can have their school back. 

 

Like Kingdl stated, I believe that number is quite a bit lower than 17. 

[GrandGreen]

I certainly don't think heavy donors are the problem.  Every successful program as many more and usually at a much higher donation level.  

The problem is apparently there is not any one in the administration who wants to tell them; NT appreciates your support of the program, but there are going to be changes.  

[oldguystudent]

UNT athletics has turned in to class warfare with expressions of open disdain from both sides.  It's unattractive...from both sides.  That there should be a common goal is lost.  That there even is a common goal anymore is questionable.  Seems more important to divide ourselves.

It's ugly.  Participants on both sides are making it uglier.  It doesn't help that our sports suck across the board.  

I am thankful that the real reason I attended UNT was to obtain a degree which has landed me in an increasingly lucrative profession.  I am thankful that the performance and state of the athletic department and its fans have no bearing on my continued professional advancement.  Mostly, I'm thankful that I've got other pursuits and priorities in life than to worry too hard about a recreational activity in which I take part five or six times a year.

It's the off season, people.  Can we please move to the important topics?  You know, helmet stickers, uniforms, and American lager style beer vs. super hoppy IPAs?

[GTWT]

21 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

 Mostly, I'm thankful that I've got other pursuits and priorities in life than to worry too hard about a recreational activity in which I take part five or six times a year.

 

Yes. There are lot's of us who need to get a life.  Me included.  Maybe I'll attend a Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders rally this weekend.  That should take my mind off of '90, RV, & whether some 18 year-old kid is going to commit to NT.

[UNT90]

30 minutes ago, GTWT said:

Yes. There are lot's of us who need to get a life.  Me included.  Maybe I'll attend a Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders rally this weekend.  

Talk about about of the frying pan and into the flame...

Edited April 8, 2016 by UNT90

[edcollopy]

Folks, why would anyone want to be a puppet master for a shit show.  Wow, I'm a big time donor of the most embarrassing football and basketball program in the land!  I don't see how anyone thinks that is a cool thing to be associated with.  I just don't get that logic that we suck at everything because 17 people like to have access to our crap athletic program.  "look everyone, I'm the tallest midget!"  If anything, if I was a substantial donor, I'd want a ton more bang for my buck.  How many wives would tolerate their husbands (or vice versa) continue to shell out big dough for a shit program that draws flies and is routinely an embarrassment to an otherwise terrific learning institution.

[Side Show Joe]

8 hours ago, KingDL1 said:

I wish I could but it would out people and cause more problems.I am sure a ton of denieal and spin. White knights would come out of the wood work and on and on.  The stuff I was told if true and I do believe it is, just blew my mind. It kind of really made me lose hope in a way that truly hit my core a new low for my Mean Green spirit.

 

I hope Dwayne is right and  Littrell  pulls a miracle out of his ass. That may help get others involved to break the circle. Sorry I am just disheartened. 

Many on this board are right there with you. I love North Texas and it is very hard to watch our programs struggle year after year, without seeing any real commitment to fixing our issues (see men's basketball). North Texas is one of the largest universities in C-USA, with some of the nicest facilities, and one of the largest budgets, but yet we struggle... Our leadership lacks the ability to identify, hire, and retain the coaches necessary to build winning programs. That is not my opinion. That is the truth.

You may be right. There could be a very small group of donors that hold far too much power over the athletic department. But if that is true, it still only amounts to half of the problem. The fact that our students don't stand up and demand a better product is just as big of a concern. If 2 or 3 thousand actual students made some signs and protested at the administration building, in front of the some of the local T.V. stations, things would change.

[oldguystudent]

3 minutes ago, Side Show Joe said:

If 2 or 3 thousand actual students made some signs and protested at the administration building, in front of the some of the local T.V. stations, things would change.

To be honest, the only time I have ever seen something like that at any school was when the school announced they were cutting programs.  See UAB.  Otherwise, to my experience, students know what they're getting themselves in to when they sign up as freshman, and pretty much assume that to be the status quo and the reality of their college existence.

[foutsrouts]

2 hours ago, edcollopy said:

Folks, why would anyone want to be a puppet master for a shit show.  Wow, I'm a big time donor of the most embarrassing football and basketball program in the land!  I don't see how anyone thinks that is a cool thing to be associated with.  I just don't get that logic that we suck at everything because 17 people like to have access to our crap athletic program.  "look everyone, I'm the tallest midget!"  If anything, if I was a substantial donor, I'd want a ton more bang for my buck.  How many wives would tolerate their husbands (or vice versa) continue to shell out big dough for a shit program that draws flies and is routinely an embarrassment to an otherwise terrific learning institution.

My thoughts exactly. Throwing huge bucks at a loser while "controlling" that loser would seem to make them losers even in their own eyes. Unless of course they're the only members of the Rich Guy's Club who have no egos.

[SilverEagle]

1 hour ago, edcollopy said:

Folks, why would anyone want to be a puppet master for a shit show.  Wow, I'm a big time donor of the most embarrassing football and basketball program in the land!  I don't see how anyone thinks that is a cool thing to be associated with.  I just don't get that logic that we suck at everything because 17 people like to have access to our crap athletic program.  "look everyone, I'm the tallest midget!"  If anything, if I was a substantial donor, I'd want a ton more bang for my buck.  How many wives would tolerate their husbands (or vice versa) continue to shell out big dough for a shit program that draws flies and is routinely an embarrassment to an otherwise terrific learning institution.

This!

I can understand that someone with money and power/influence likes to have their way, and is not averse to putting pressure on administrators. But I have a hard time believing that those same people who are interested in our Alma Mater and it's athletic programs would be satisfied with the pathetic outcomes of the last ten years. 

So what I would like to hear are specifics. Since you cannot name names, then name outcomes. Such as " Most of the rank and file North Texas fans want this, but the "influential" instead want this " OR, "most of the rank and file fans see the path to athletic success as this, but the "influential" see the path to success as this.

Edited April 8, 2016 by SilverEagle

[bloodstunt]

7 minutes ago, foutsrouts said:

My thoughts exactly. Throwing huge bucks at a loser while "controlling" that loser would seem to make them losers even in their own eyes. Unless of course they're the only members of the Rich Guy's Club who have no egos.

Jerry Jones wouldn't agree.

[SilverEagle]

8 minutes ago, foutsrouts said:

My thoughts exactly. Throwing huge bucks at a loser while "controlling" that loser would seem to make them losers even in their own eyes. Unless of course they're the only members of the Rich Guy's Club who have no egos.

This!

[UNT90]

1 hour ago, edcollopy said:

Folks, why would anyone want to be a puppet master for a shit show.  Wow, I'm a big time donor of the most embarrassing football and basketball program in the land!  I don't see how anyone thinks that is a cool thing to be associated with.  I just don't get that logic that we suck at everything because 17 people like to have access to our crap athletic program.  "look everyone, I'm the tallest midget!"  If anything, if I was a substantial donor, I'd want a ton more bang for my buck.  How many wives would tolerate their husbands (or vice versa) continue to shell out big dough for a shit program that draws flies and is routinely an embarrassment to an otherwise terrific learning institution.

Apparently you aren't familiar with kingdom building. This is what has happened at UNT. A few select donors have their kingdom. Is it a crappy, unsuccessful kingdom? Yes. But it's a Kingdom all the same. And it's THEIR kingdom. Go back and read the thread where Fly told us that small donors don't matter. Pay special attention to what he typed and how he typed it. 

And the proof that this is occurring? The worst AD in FBS college athletics is still sitting behind the AD's desk. Despite Tony Benford, despite Portland St 66 UNT 7 on homecoming, despite publicly lying through his teeth to the fan base on numerous occasions about numerous issues. He is fired last October, if not WAY before, at any other FBS program in the country.

Thats how you know that the large donors want their toy. They care more about controlling the program than winning, and continue to demonstrate this behavior.

I'm sure those of you who work in both the public and private sector have know supervisors like this. I've seen many. Doing what is right or wrong is not what guides them. Doing what most benefits them is their only concern. And the organization ALWAYS  suffers under this type of leadership. But those leaders don't care, as long as their personal needs are met.  And that describes UNT athletics to a tee on so many multiple levels.

The culture is pure poison where winning athletics are concerned. 

Edited April 8, 2016 by UNT90

[GreenTexan13]

Didn't the donors buck up the money to fire McCarney? (Which was RV's hire) Why would anyone want to throw away money like that? Because let's face it... They paid for Mac's retirement...

[SilverEagle]

2 hours ago, oldguystudent said:

It's the off season, people.  Can we please move to the important topics?  You know, helmet stickers, uniforms, and American lager style beer vs. super hoppy IPAs?

I'm all for that.  

Because anyone in their right mind would want their athletic program to have the "out of this world" outcome of a great tasting Amber Ale like this.....

vs the bitter outcome of consuming any "harvested-from-a- horse's-bladder", IPA.

[DeepGreen]

13 minutes ago, GreenTexan13 said:

Didn't the donors buck up the money to fire McCarney? (Which was RV's hire) Why would anyone want to throw away money like that? Because let's face it... They paid for Mac's retirement...

And begs another question, how did all of theses folks, the UNT 17, make their money with bad business decisions?  C'mon, giving RV money to fix the bad hires, just to have access to an Apogee suite, or a seat on the team plane?  How did these people make that kind of money just to piss it away like they are doing?