MGB: UNT picks up DB commit - Khairi Muhammad (DeSoto) - SIGNED LOI

[Mean_Green09]

5 hours ago, HarringtonFishSmeller said:

Um...for all the disparaging done to Dickey, Dodge, and McCarney, someone please tell me how this type of recruiting is different.  We're picking off guys from Midwestern State?  Last week we were sizing up a kid from a North Dakota JUCO.

Don't misread me, I'm not disparaging the kid; I'm asking a legitimate question about the coaching/recruiting.  So far, it doesn't seem that different to me as far as recruiting the preps go.  Anyone with a theory?

Well for one he has had a short amount of time and not a lot to work with. It's not like he had a full class and was just trying to keep them and land a few studs to complete the class.

Him and his staff probably had to reset a lot of the recruiting board. 

He has garnered interest from a lot of top prospects and given them something to think about. 

I like how he has attacked the QB position so far in recruiting. 

I think you have to wait till signing day to see how he finishes. 

[MEEN2018]

According to his scout profile it seems that he only played DB for 1 season. I'm not a DB coach or anything but looked like he had some talent there. Seems like a guy that could really benefit from a redshirt to get another year of experience at the position and could be at least a good nickel corner in the future. 

[BillySee58]

6 hours ago, HarringtonFishSmeller said:

Um...for all the disparaging done to Dickey, Dodge, and McCarney, someone please tell me how this type of recruiting is different.  We're picking off guys from Midwestern State?  Last week we were sizing up a kid from a North Dakota JUCO.

Don't misread me, I'm not disparaging the kid; I'm asking a legitimate question about the coaching/recruiting.  So far, it doesn't seem that different to me as far as recruiting the preps go.  Anyone with a theory?

From a recruiting standpoint, there is nothing impressive about this pickup on the coaching staff. It's early, and they pretty much get a free pass this class, but they haven't shown anything that most coaches would have trouble pulling off.

Getting kids with few or zero other FBS offers (like in this case) is that no matter how good the player turns out, it is not an example of good recruiting. Anyone can get a kid when they're his only offer. If he turns out good then you're looking at a case of successful EVALUATION.

As long as they're doing a good job winning recruiting battles, one to a few of these guys a class are okay. But they need to prove they can win recruiting battles consistently.

[BillySee58]

1 hour ago, Mean_Green09 said:

Well for one he has had a short amount of time and not a lot to work with. It's not like he had a full class and was just trying to keep them and land a few studs to complete the class.

Him and his staff probably had to reset a lot of the recruiting board. 

He has garnered interest from a lot of top prospects and given them something to think about. 

I like how he has attacked the QB position so far in recruiting. 

I think you have to wait till signing day to see how he finishes. 

For sure we have to wait until signing day, and especially with his first full class in 2017 to see how well Coach Littrell and his staff can recruit. But even so, let's not forget that on a similar time crunch to get a staff in and sign a class what Mccarney did with the 2011 class. 

Flipped Chaz Sampson from Tulsa, flipped Kerry Swarn from Arizona, got players with good offer lists like Cyril Lemon, Derek Akunne, Andrew Power, Freddie Warner, etc. No reason we can't at least pull off something similar to that.

[Wag Tag]

4 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

For sure we have to wait until signing day, and especially with his first full class in 2017 to see how well Coach Littrell and his staff can recruit. But even so, let's not forget that on a similar time crunch to get a staff in and sign a class what Mccarney did with the 2011 class. 

Flipped Chaz Sampson from Tulsa, flipped Kerry Swarn from Arizona, got players with good offer lists like Cyril Lemon, Derek Akunne, Andrew Power, Freddie Warner, etc. No reason we can't at least pull off something similar to that.

Mac could sell the new Stadium! Agree with Billy you have to think the staff, on this commit, new they would get grief! They had to see something that told them who cares.

[BillySee58]

Just now, Wag Tag said:

Mac could sell the new Stadium! Agree with Billy you have to think the staff, on this commit, new they would get grief! They had to see something that told them who cares.

Littrell still gets to sell the stadium, just not the grand opening. And he gets to sell CUSA, where Mac only had Sun Belt.

I don't think they're getting grief. I think people are just stating that this doesn't show anything the old staff couldn't do. And that's what we're looking for in recruiting.

[MeanGreenTexan]

2 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Littrell still gets to sell the stadium, just not the grand opening. And he gets to sell CUSA, where Mac only had Sun Belt.

I don't think they're getting grief. I think people are just stating that this doesn't show anything the old staff couldn't do. And that's what we're looking for in recruiting.

Also, we still have a few more weeks to be blown away 

[Wag Tag]

1 minute ago, BillySee58 said:

Littrell still gets to sell the stadium, just not the grand opening. And he gets to sell CUSA, where Mac only had Sun Belt.

I don't think they're getting grief. I think people are just stating that this doesn't show anything the old staff couldn't do. And that's what we're looking for in recruiting.

True. Except for the grief part! Where is 90?

[UNT90]

28 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

True. Except for the grief part! Where is 90?

Patiently waiting for Feb. 3rd before judging this class, and even then realizing the impossible task Littrell was tasked with will make this a substandard class. 

My concern has always been Littrell underestimating the challenge of recruiting to UNT, then seeing the culture inside the AD and just giving up. That's pretty much what happened with the last guy who also grew up in the P5 system. 

Like Billy said, we won't know until the 2017 class. 

I do have a question for @BillySee58 . How many recruits did Dodge have in the bank when Mac took over? Was Mac starting with 2 commits like Littrell had to?

[BillySee58]

1 minute ago, UNT90 said:

I do have a question for @BillySee58 . How many recruits did Dodge have in the bank when Mac took over? Was Mac starting with 2 commits like Littrell had to?

Actually, yes. Mccarney signed two Dodge commits in Jamone Greer and Marcus Smith. The rest were all Mccarney commits.

[UNT90]

1 minute ago, BillySee58 said:

Actually, yes. Mccarney signed two Dodge commits in Jamone Greer and Marcus Smith. The rest were all Mccarney commits.

Interesting. How big was that class? 

[BillySee58]

16 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Interesting. How big was that class? 

22, which doesn't include Marcus Smith who I believe grayshirted. So Mccarney signed 21 of his own recruits

[Cr1028]

42 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

Mac could sell the new Stadium! Agree with Billy you have to think the staff, on this commit, new they would get grief! They had to see something that told them who cares.

Dodge flipped Vizza from Nevada and he was selling Fouts. He got Jordan Scroggins to choose us over UH, UTEP, and Tulane(remember we were in the Belt at the time). Matt Tomlinson picked us over Indiana, Rice, Tulsa, and UTEP. AJ Penson (Dez's buddy) chose us over UH, Iowa State, and UTEP. Bron Hager chose us over Baylor. The late Sam Dibrell chose us over NMSU. Jesse Desoto picked us over Mizzou and Navy. These are all according to rivals. Dodge wasn't hired until 12/12/06 and didn't complete his staff until 1/11/07. He was still able to snag these kids, but Evyn Roman. I get it. Still, I think he did a great job in his truncated timetable.

[DeepGreen]

"The late Sam Dibrell chose us over NMSU."

Refresh my memory.  What happened to Dibrell?

[HarringtonFishSmeller]

All good points.  However, part of the sell on Littrell was supposed to be some sort of theoretical "excitement" among preps about his coming to North Texas.  I think the truth will bear that the "excitement" was just among fans who are happy to see a new face at the head coaching position after the disastrous 2014 and 2015 seasons.  

Every recruit is risky.  However, for reasons unknown, schools who do get the better prep athletes do have better results over the long haul.  Alabama isn't squeaking by on zero- to two-stars and having Saban coach like Jesus to get them national title after national title.

Our situation is, of course, different.  My hope is that people will accept the reality that we are not a school which can recruit our way out of our talent problem.  We may hit on a handful of guys who were underrated coming out of high school.  But, the likelihood of getting 22 like that, even 11, is pretty farfetched.

My fear with Littrell isn't that he is a bad coach, but that he will overly rely on an offensive system for which he will never have enough good athletes to be consistently successful.  He is committed to an offense where your players are required to out-athlete a defense.  I'm not seeing it so far in the prep recruits he's brought in. 

And, think of this...

...some of you say he gets a pass this year.  Well, how does that make sense?  A "get a pass" class bites you two/three years down the line when you need quality depth.  Are we settling for this mindset of "we can give him an excuse because we suck?"  

Well, if we have another losing season in 2016, what is changing in the minds of recruits next signing period?  Then, do we go back down the path that so many other coaches take - desperately seeking JUCOs as band aids on a wound that never heals? 

It's a problem.  It's been a problem for us for a long time.  Just seems to me that whatever lightning people thought would strike simply due to the hiring of Littrell isn't really happening on the recruiting front. 

Littrell's going to have to win this year, plain and simple.  Our program is way past the point of giving people passes, the benefit of the doubt, etc.  College football has changed tremendously, and we have been behind the whole time.  I hate to have to say or think any of this, but...we're in a tough reality.  We simply have to win to get better recruits; no excuses.     

 

Edited January 20, 2016 by HarringtonFishSmeller

[Cerebus]

19 minutes ago, DeepGreen said:

"The late Sam Dibrell chose us over NMSU."

Refresh my memory.  What happened to Dibrell?

mySA: Ex-Alamo Heights' football player dies in car wreck

Quote

Sam Dibrell, a star wide receiver on Alamo Heights High’s 2006 state championship team, died Monday of injuries from a rollover accident. He was 22.

---

Dibrell, who was wearing his seatbelt, suffered from head trauma and other injuries.
Giovanni Vizza, Dibrell’s quarterback at Alamo Heights and North Texas, said Dibrell “had a way to bring sunshine into every room.”
“Everybody would just gravitate toward him,” Vizza said. “He was so giving and so kind. He was the best friend I’ve ever had.”

Tragic.

[Mean Green 93-98]

20 minutes ago, HarringtonFishSmeller said:

However, part of the sell on Littrell was supposed to be some sort of theoretical "excitement" among preps about his coming to North Texas.     

Just curious--where did you get that idea?  He comes with far less name recognition initially than either Dodge or McCarney.

The hope would be that he and his staff are able to generate excitement through relentless recruiting efforts and letting recruits know about the kind of program he plans on building, but I don't see recruits throwing themselves at us because they heard Seth Littrell was coming to UNT.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Mean Green 93-98

[untjim1995]

2016 Recruiting was a lost cause before Littrell got hired. The program is the worst in America right now and has absolutely no sway at all with TX HS Coaches or recruits. This is where a name coach or a current assistant in Texas (like Meacham) probably helps you out more immediately in recruiting, but may not pay out over the long term. Littrell is an unknown to these folks, right now. But he's just working to keep it from being the worst in the country--UTSA and Texas State have both certainly helped us on that front.

Recruiting for 2017 is where we have to hope that Littrell and his staff can win some battles. And that they get better in 2018--and beyond.

As I have said before, Littrell has a pass for on-field results in 2016. But its going to be his battles off the field in recruiting and in cleaning up the locker room that are the true tests of his first year. 2017 and beyond is when you want to see USM-like improvement. If we see a turnaround similar to USM's by the end of 2018, LIttrell is coaching somewhere else above us on the college football totem pole. If he hasn't turned us around to being bowl eligible by 2019, he will be done coaching here, unless he just cannot get us out of this whirlpool of losing that Mac left us in, similar to the Dickey and Dodge years. Then, its very possible that the UNT 17 buys out his contract--that is what is probably the most promising thing we have seen in terms of athletics at UNT in the last 5 years--we will buy out a contract with more than a year left on it now, instead of waiting until the university deems it "affordable".

Littrell is here for 3 or 4 years, IMO. Either to leave for richer trails or to go back to play calling at another university as an assistant coach. Its just hard for me to see anything other than that for a young head coach in his first FBS gig.

[Aldo]

1 hour ago, HarringtonFishSmeller said:

My fear with Littrell isn't that he is a bad coach, but that he will overly rely on an offensive system for which he will never have enough good athletes to be consistently successful.  He is committed to an offense where your players are required to out-athlete a defense.

Not sure what this means. But if you look back to his offenses, play calling changes based on personnel and strengths. 

Some years he has called 60% passing. Other years, 60% rushing. Other years, 50-50.

You can't "out-athlete" anyone if you don't put them in the right situations (play calling) to succeed.

This was a big factor last year, the year before that, and before that...

[Cooley]

9 hours ago, HarringtonFishSmeller said:

Um...for all the disparaging done to Dickey, Dodge, and McCarney, someone please tell me how this type of recruiting is different.  We're picking off guys from Midwestern State?  Last week we were sizing up a kid from a North Dakota JUCO.

Don't misread me, I'm not disparaging the kid; I'm asking a legitimate question about the coaching/recruiting.  So far, it doesn't seem that different to me as far as recruiting the preps go.  Anyone with a theory?

When RV was interviewed after the coaching change he stated that the old staff recruited far too many kids that couldn't play. (many being undersized) I was excited to hear that they would not continue to waste scholarships (for 4 years) on kids just to fill their annual allotment. Not to single this recruit out but isn't it better to leave precious scholarships unfilled rather than taking flyers on DII or "no other offer" kids? Yes, a few will perform beyond expectations but the vast majority will not.

From my historical observation of new hires, everyone seems to come in with a 5 year plan to build. I'm hopeful that the increased salaries paid out is a clear message to staff of greater and quicker results.

Bryce English (albeit short)  is a player. We just have to find 21 others (of this type) to get on the field to really turn this program around.         

[greenit]

2 hours ago, HarringtonFishSmeller said:

All good points.  However, part of the sell on Littrell was supposed to be some sort of theoretical "excitement" among preps about his coming to North Texas.  I think the truth will bear that the "excitement" was just among fans who are happy to see a new face at the head coaching position after the disastrous 2014 and 2015 seasons.  

Every recruit is risky.  However, for reasons unknown, schools who do get the better prep athletes do have better results over the long haul.  Alabama isn't squeaking by on zero- to two-stars and having Saban coach like Jesus to get them national title after national title.

Our situation is, of course, different.  My hope is that people will accept the reality that we are not a school which can recruit our way out of our talent problem.  We may hit on a handful of guys who were underrated coming out of high school.  But, the likelihood of getting 22 like that, even 11, is pretty farfetched.

My fear with Littrell isn't that he is a bad coach, but that he will overly rely on an offensive system for which he will never have enough good athletes to be consistently successful.  He is committed to an offense where your players are required to out-athlete a defense.  I'm not seeing it so far in the prep recruits he's brought in. 

And, think of this...

...some of you say he gets a pass this year.  Well, how does that make sense?  A "get a pass" class bites you two/three years down the line when you need quality depth.  Are we settling for this mindset of "we can give him an excuse because we suck?"  

Well, if we have another losing season in 2016, what is changing in the minds of recruits next signing period?  Then, do we go back down the path that so many other coaches take - desperately seeking JUCOs as band aids on a wound that never heals? 

It's a problem.  It's been a problem for us for a long time.  Just seems to me that whatever lightning people thought would strike simply due to the hiring of Littrell isn't really happening on the recruiting front. 

Littrell's going to have to win this year, plain and simple.  Our program is way past the point of giving people passes, the benefit of the doubt, etc.  College football has changed tremendously, and we have been behind the whole time.  I hate to have to say or think any of this, but...we're in a tough reality.  We simply have to win to get better recruits; no excuses.     

 

False.

The spread/air raid/run and shoot was invented for the exact opposite reason.

[Wag Tag]

5 minutes ago, greenit said:

False.

The spread/air raid/run and shoot was invented for the exact opposite reason.

The Offense allows success because most HS programs are running it in some form and they start in Jr. high! Texas athletes took off big time once 7 on 7 competition was approved in the State. An example would be Highland Park good athletes with great success. 

[GrandGreen]

Littrell and staff have just about shown zero at this point with high school recruits, but it way too early to evaluate anything.  Sure, they get a pass this year; but we are all going to be concerned unless this class gets much better.  If Littrell and staff can't bump up recruiting a little even in this short time, it is definitely a bad sign.  Having stated that, I would rather NT has a very small class than make McCarney type reaches.

[GreenN'walinsVet]

I think we all need to relax on this signee.  He is rated as a WR.  Everyone on here wants us to recruit like TCU and such.  Well this is what they do.  They go find Athletes and put them in different positions and watch them take off from there.  Would I like all of our Athletes to be 3 and 4 starts?  Well hell yes but that is just not reality at this point.  Lets see what this kid can do before flushing him down the tubes.  

We are all comparing him to the little to no offer kids McCarney brought in.  Thats not fair because we know that McCarney (and his staff) couldn't figure out how to either reposition or maximize a players attributes to fit their scheme.

Before crapping all over Litrell (and his Staff) lets see if they can do the evaluations and turn these athletes into football players and other positions then what their high school coach thought they could play.

[HarringtonFishSmeller]

1 hour ago, greenit said:

False.

The spread/air raid/run and shoot was invented for the exact opposite reason.

No, it is to take advantage of athletic mismatches...or, so preaches Joel Klatt when people ask him why those offenses don't work in the NFL.