A question for long term fans

[MGNation92]

So I came to UNT in 2012 and graduated in 2015. I never experienced the Dodge years although I've read and heard of the perception of the program, losses, and how generally speaking, support was bad, and the regime was disappointing.

So I ask, was there ever a time during the Dodge years, where the Mean Green faithful had collectively been in such disarray and discontent? It seems like it would be much easier to do so when Dodge was here. Just interested to know what it was like back then.

Edit: As compared to the state we are in now

Edited November 16, 2015 by MGNation92

[golfingomez]

wasn't big on the board then. but I always had to have my friend talk me out of going brown paper bag over my head to every game the last two years...

[TheTastyGreek]

So I came to UNT in 2012 and graduated in 2015. I never experienced the Dodge years although I've read and heard of the perception of the program, losses, and how generally speaking, support was bad, and the regime was disappointing.

So I ask, was there ever a time during the Dodge years, where the Mean Green faithful had collectively been in such disarray and discontent? It seems like it would be much easier to do so when Dodge was here. Just interested to know what it was like back then.

Edit: As compared to the state we are in now

This is the worst. 

Back in 2006 when Dickey was on the chopping block, we were just two years removed from a 26 game conference winning streak and 4 straight bowls. A lot of people believed any idiot could come in and achieve that level of success, and we'd be right back on track again in no time. 

Back in the Dodge years, things seemed more incompetent on the field (to me, at least). But people had something to look forward to... If you enjoyed basketball, a Dodge football season was never more than 8 weeks away from live basketball and a solid to very good source of pride for us in a major sport. If you didn't care about basketball, we had a stadium being built, and a fancy new conference to get excited about. 

Now, we've built infrastructure. We've moved up to CUSA. But we're losing badly at all the major sports, and I think there's more overall program anger or despair now as opposed to just short-term or limited sport disappointment. 

A lot of the old excuses are gone, but we still aren't winning. And we've had strong building blocks in both of the major sports within the past 10-11 years, but we've screwed up the hiring that could have sustained or rebuilt that foundation. 

Right now, anything that people could cling to as a sign of hope? Something in the very recent past makes it seem like a mirage. So, this is the worst. 

People have always been assholes to each other here, though. If that's what you mean. Even in the middle of the Dickey years or the JJ run of success, people were being absolute dicks to each other. The only thing that changes there is the names and faces. 

[rcade]

So I ask, was there ever a time during the Dodge years, where the Mean Green faithful had collectively been in such disarray and discontent? It seems like it would be much easier to do so when Dodge was here. Just interested to know what it was like back then.

Dodge was only in his second year as UNT head coach when the student athletic fee was passed and plans for a new stadium began. I think this reduced the amount of criticism that Dodge might have received otherwise as the losses continued to pile up. It also kept RV from facing the kind of criticism he's facing today over a failed football hire.

Even with all the losses in the third and fourth Dodge seasons, I think there was some disappointment that he wouldn't open Apogee. We were invested in the optimistic vision that was present when Dodge was still a new coach and our stadium was being built.

[mgfan]

I wasn't active on the board (just read), but I think there is a point to looking forward to basketball season. My wife now, ,gf back then, would say at least we have basketball, and now that is gone too. The collective displeasure is at an all time high from my point of view. You may need the opinion of a fan that has been around longer then me. 

[Side Show Joe]

The Dodge years were bad, really bad,... but not this bad. We were a Sun Belt level program and as a fan base didn't have very high expectations. That just isn't the case now. The sad truth is more then a few current Sun Belt programs would clean our clock right now, and those programs spend much less money on athletics.

Even with the gains we have seen off the field during RV's time as AD (Apogee & C-USA), the decade of losing has taken its toll on many of us. With the facilities and conference we play in, we just shouldn't be this bad in all three major sports. None of the other recent additions are as bad in all three major sports. Many of us believe RV has made enough contributions to our athletics. Lets bring in new leadership and set a higher standard for success (winning, scheduling, & marketing). If the new leadership fixes those three issues, MGC and attendance numbers will naturally increase. 

Edited November 17, 2015 by Side Show Joe

[UNT90]

This is the worst. 

Back in 2006 when Dickey was on the chopping block, we were just two years removed from a 26 game conference winning streak and 4 straight bowls. A lot of people believed any idiot could come in and achieve that level of success, and we'd be right back on track again in no time. 

Back in the Dodge years, things seemed more incompetent on the field (to me, at least). But people had something to look forward to... If you enjoyed basketball, a Dodge football season was never more than 8 weeks away from live basketball and a solid to very good source of pride for us in a major sport. If you didn't care about basketball, we had a stadium being built, and a fancy new conference to get excited about. 

Now, we've built infrastructure. We've moved up to CUSA. But we're losing badly at all the major sports, and I think there's more overall program anger or despair now as opposed to just short-term or limited sport disappointment. 

A lot of the old excuses are gone, but we still aren't winning. And we've had strong building blocks in both of the major sports within the past 10-11 years, but we've screwed up the hiring that could have sustained or rebuilt that foundation. 

Right now, anything that people could cling to as a sign of hope? Something in the very recent past makes it seem like a mirage. So, this is the worst. 

People have always been assholes to each other here, though. If that's what you mean. Even in the middle of the Dickey years or the JJ run of success, people were being absolute dicks to each other. The only thing that changes there is the names and faces. 

This is pretty dead on. I would add that during Dodge, we heard excuses from the AD that it's hard to win with Fouts. We, or at least I, didn't know how willfully and frequently this AD would lie to the fan base. So we (I) took him at his word. 

But now we have everything in place to win. And have for 5 years. Right when we should be coming into our own and dominating CUSA, we are the worst program in not only the conference, but all of college football. Throw on top of that a 59 point loss to something called Portland St., and you have a livid fan base. And then you have an AD that lies about his schedule, lies about just a "minute few" wanting him gone, and I'm convinced would tell you the Pope was Baptist if he thought that would deflect attention from his awful job performance. Put all that together and you have the all time low fan base morale at UNT.

But if you ask RV, he will tell you brighter days are right around the corner.

 

[UNT86]

I don't think our current situation is nearly as bad as it has been at other times in the past.

For one, I can remember how disappointing it was coming off seasons of 10-1 and 9-2 in 1979.  Our coach left and the best we could hire was the freshman coach at Nebraska?  He promptly took the best talent we have ever had and went 11-11 over the next two seasons.

I was glad when he left.  Maybe I shouldn't have been.  We hired Bob Tyler and wen 2-9 (sadly, it made 11-11 look a lot better).  So, I think we were much worse off then.

I think we were worse off in 1984 when we had one of the best I-AA teams in the nation.  But, our AD wanted a free trip to Nevada and turned in a low estimation of attendance so that Nevada-Reno got the home game instead of us.  We lost 17-20 in the snow.

I think we were worse off in 1985 when during a game in Lubbock, one of our players attacked a coach on the sideline during the game.

I think we were worse off in 1991 when we hired our first high school coach.  We went 12-20-1 over the next three years.

I think we were worse off when we were in the Big West conference.  Nobody cared when Utah State or Idaho or came to town.

Were the Dodge teams bad? Of course they were.

But, all things considered, we are in a much better position than we have been at other times.

I want to win too, but the sky isn't falling.  It's just a few guys that have a limited perspective making a lot of noise.

[UNTexas]

I don't think our current situation is nearly as bad as it has been at other times in the past.

For one, I can remember how disappointing it was coming off seasons of 10-1 and 9-2 in 1979.  Our coach left and the best we could hire was the freshman coach at Nebraska?  He promptly took the best talent we have ever had and went 11-11 over the next two seasons.

I was glad when he left.  Maybe I shouldn't have been.  We hired Bob Tyler and wen 2-9 (sadly, it made 11-11 look a lot better).  So, I think we were much worse off then.

I think we were worse off in 1984 when we had one of the best I-AA teams in the nation.  But, our AD wanted a free trip to Nevada and turned in a low estimation of attendance so that Nevada-Reno got the home game instead of us.  We lost 17-20 in the snow.

I think we were worse off in 1985 when during a game in Lubbock, one of our players attacked a coach on the sideline during the game.

I think we were worse off in 1991 when we hired our first high school coach.  We went 12-20-1 over the next three years.

I think we were worse off when we were in the Big West conference.  Nobody cared when Utah State or Idaho or came to town.

Were the Dodge teams bad? Of course they were.

But, all things considered, we are in a much better position than we have been at other times.

I want to win too, but the sky isn't falling.  It's just a few guys that have a limited perspective making a lot of noise.

Its much worse now than the Big West days. Utah State and Idaho are better fan draws than 5 home games and one is getting humiliated by an FCS opponent. In the Big West days we weren't awesome but we were competitive and beat a few P5 teams.  

This Athletic Department is in shambles. It's as bad now as its been since D1aa days. The basketball program is in ruin and the football team is an embarrassment. The AD has also managed to run off a lot of long time supporters that have been with this school through thick and thin. The AD got everything he asked for (facilities, people attending games, ect.) and in turn destroyed the department. 

Edited November 17, 2015 by UNTexas

[Green P1]

This is much worse. Much much worse.  It's one thing to be the worst team in the nation... But hire a new coach, in a new stadium, to get to a bowl game and then so quickly see your program allowed to once again become the worst in the freaking nation.... It's flat out demoralizing.

[Got5onIt]

Didn't like the Dodge hire from day one. The circus he brought with his high school coaches and the whole NAACP thing were flat out ridiculous. I would compare the Dodge era to a slow to heal, gaping wound. McCarney's last half of 2014 and the current 2015 season would be like ripping 100 superglued bandaids off a hairy chest.

The current discontent from the masses is directed at the AD, which didn't happen after the Dodge era. I think that's why this time it seems a little more serious...

Edited November 17, 2015 by Got5onIt

[greenb.o.g.]

For all those who say this one football season is worse than the Dodge years, you are effin' crazy!

There is no doubt this season is a complete disaster, but that's just it, it is one season!

Every year that Dodge was here was a disaster!

[FirefightnRick]

In the late 70's/early 80's the football team collapsed but we had a basketball team that beat Texas back to back and could play with anyone. Our best player ended up co-conference MVP with La Tech's Karl "The Mailman" Malone.  And Kenny Lyons schooled The Mailman in the final game of the season putting 40-50 points on him to settle the score. 

In the mid to late 80's we had football wins over TCU, Tech, Rice (the theft at Texas) and our largest home crowd at Fouts against SFA.  Yeah...SFA.  Our marketing guy could sell snowballs to Eskimos.  We made two trips to the 1-AA playoffs.   We also had a basketball team that was, at one point playing for a third straight conference championship and made our first trip to the NCAA's in '88.  At one point drew a Super Pit crowd over 6,000 against UTA and hosted two post season conference championships on ESPN.

In the 90's we started out with a win over SMU in football and we had competitive basketball.  That BB coach is now asst head coach under Larry Brown at SMU.  In football, after firing our first version of Dodge after year three...(that's called accountability) we were seconds away from a win at Ok State and won a conference championship.  This was also the time when the Mean Green nation..minus ever hearing of a Kram, FlyOnTheWall, Ernie Kuhne or Brint Ryan...rallied together to buy/sell enough tickets and attend games to get us back into division 1 football.  It was a very exciting time.  We struggled in '95, our first year back in div 1 football but would go on to wins over Oregon State, Texas Tech twice, and Boise State.

In the 2000's we started out with horrible men's basketball, but competitive women's basketball.  Then, as Tasty posted above the football team pulled out of its nose dive,...four conference championships and trips to New Orleans and a fantastic route of Baylor in '03.  Our women's basketball finished the regular '05/'06 season at 19-9 and then JJ got the men rolling to get us thru the Dodge years.

Now after so much promise there's nothing but an empty new stadium and promises to fill it.  The AD leadership has been so poor it's worn everyone I know down.  One of my closet friends who gave $25K for the stadium hasn't seen a game in two years.  Another one time 100K donor is down to $500 and one game a year and just about everyone in between has turned away.

As I type our women's BB is leading OU.  So maybe Jalie will turn that thing around, who knows?

 

Rick

Edited November 17, 2015 by FirefightnRick

[Cr1028]

For all those who say this one football season is worse than the Dodge years, you are effin' crazy!

There is no doubt this season is a complete disaster, but that's just it, it is one season!

Every year that Dodge was here was a disaster!

Dodge's '09 or '10 teams would've beaten the current team by 2 touchdowns.

[FirefightnRick]

Dodge's '09 or '10 teams would've beaten the current team by 2 touchdowns.

Agree.

 

 

Rick

[greenminer]

Where would Vizza stand on our current QB depth chart?

[Cr1028]

Where would Vizza stand on our current QB depth chart?

#1, there would be no #2.

[Got5onIt]

Dodge's '09 or '10 teams would've beaten the current team by 2 touchdowns.

No way. Dodge and Mendoza had players like Hair Roman on the team. OU and Rice bring back memories? 2015 beats those teams by a TD.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Got5onIt

[Harry]

Where would Vizza stand on our current QB depth chart?

#1.

[Cr1028]

No way. Dodge and Mendoza had players like Hair Roman on the team. OU and Rice bring back memories? 2015 beats those teams by a TD.

Hair Roman played one season, 2007. Mendoza coached one season, 2007. OU happened the first game of 2007. Rice happened in 2008. I said the 2009 or 2010 team would've beaten this team by 2tds.

In 2015, we are averaging 15.8 points per game while giving up 43.4. Outscored by 27.6 points per game.

In 2010, we averaged 23.9 and gave up 29.7. Outscored by 5.8 points per game(with a 3rd or 4th string qb for 10 of the 12 games).

In 2009, we averaged 26.1 while giving up 35.6. Outscored by 9.5 points per game.

Since you brought up the two years that I didn't claim would beat this team, here are their stats as well.

In 2008, we averaged 20.0 points per game while giving up 47.6. Outscored by 27.6 points per game. Our worst season on record.

In 2007, we averaged 24.8 while giving up 45.1. Outscored by 20.3 in our only season with Mendoza at DC.

 

Now, let those statistics sink in, then tell me how the 2015 team could beat the 09 or 10 teams by a touchdown.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Cr1028

[wardly]

I have supported North Texas football since 1961, and this is the worst ,mainly because it was so unexpected.

[SilverEagle]

I've watched since 1963 and officially became a fan in1972. This is worst I've ever seen. And I agree with Wardly. It's mainly because it was so unexpected. I've never witnessed a more pitiful performance than our homecoming game. Until GMG came along, there was no forum in which to discuss North Texas football. The internet has brought a lot of us together, but it's also created a lot of dispare.

Also, I've observed a lot of arrogance and dumbassery on the part of North Texas administrators in the past.  But the current situation is, once again, the worst. 

[jtm0097]

The Dodge years were pretty terrible, but this is the worst. I have seen better JV games than our homecoming game. 

[GreenTexan13]

I have only been a fan since 2010. So I may not be allowed to have an opinion on this. But losing 66-7 to an FCS team on homecoming, firing the coach on the spot,  and watching the players just quit trying, is grounds to be the worst era in all of UNT football. The only thing that would have made that day any worse, is if the world exploded after the game. And for a lot of us die hard fans... It feels like the world is ending...

Edited November 17, 2015 by GreenTexan13

[Dr. Seuss]

This is the worst. 

Back in 2006 when Dickey was on the chopping block, we were just two years removed from a 26 game conference winning streak and 4 straight bowls. A lot of people believed any idiot could come in and achieve that level of success, and we'd be right back on track again in no time. 

Back in the Dodge years, things seemed more incompetent on the field (to me, at least). But people had something to look forward to... If you enjoyed basketball, a Dodge football season was never more than 8 weeks away from live basketball and a solid to very good source of pride for us in a major sport. If you didn't care about basketball, we had a stadium being built, and a fancy new conference to get excited about. 

Now, we've built infrastructure. We've moved up to CUSA. But we're losing badly at all the major sports, and I think there's more overall program anger or despair now as opposed to just short-term or limited sport disappointment. 

A lot of the old excuses are gone, but we still aren't winning. And we've had strong building blocks in both of the major sports within the past 10-11 years, but we've screwed up the hiring that could have sustained or rebuilt that foundation. 

Right now, anything that people could cling to as a sign of hope? Something in the very recent past makes it seem like a mirage. So, this is the worst. 

People have always been assholes to each other here, though. If that's what you mean. Even in the middle of the Dickey years or the JJ run of success, people were being absolute dicks to each other. The only thing that changes there is the names and faces. 

Perfectly written.