Middle Tennessee Schedules Series With Mizzou

[James329]

If we just win and win consistently including being more than relevant I can assure you that the financial stuff will work itself out.  Positive and consistent results on the field/court etc will cure just about anything.

I'm so tired of seeing this. It's in every thread on this site. First of all, duh. Secondly, per this specific discussion, scheduling teams that people want to see at home and that you might potentially have a chance to beat is part of winning and relevance. 

[GRN-WHT]

Just a quick review of upcoming home games for our conference mates:

FAU- Miami, USF, UCF

Charlotte - Duke, Temple

 

FIU - Maryland, Miami, Indiana, UCF

 

Marshall - Purdue, Louisville, NC State, ECU, Pitt 

 

MTSU - Vandy, Duke, Missouri

 

ODU - NC State, North Carolina, Va tech, Wake Forest

 

WKU - Vandy, Indiana

 

La Tech - Miss St, Baylor

 

Rice - Baylor, Stanford, A&M, Wake Forest, Houston, Northwestern, Boise state

 

So Miss - Miss St, BYU, Kentucky

 

UTEP - Arizona, Texas Tech, Boise St

Cliffs notes version- We're the only school in the conference that does not have a home game scheduled versus a P5 opponent.

Apologists gonna apologize

I'm a fan of the SMU series, but the series with Army is bad, bad, bad. Why would we lock ourselves up with them for so long? There are plenty of home and homes out there to be had with lower end P5 schools. The fan base is going to get bored with the Army series.

[Mean Green 93-98]

It works out to more 5 home game seasons.  There are also great financial issues depending on the contract as well commented on above.  

Why would 2-for-1s lead to more 5 game home seasons than simply doing bodybag games?  That simply makes no sense.  

As for the financial issues, contracts can and have been structured so the one extra away game is paid just like a regular bodybag game.

[letsgiveacheer]

C'mon people.    Try to follow...  You guys either graduated from UNT, or are currently students, so I know you're smart enough to understand.

A 2-for-1 means you go to <P5 team> 2 times for $0.
They then return to your stadium to grace you with their presence.  
You're gambling on the gate you pull from the 1 return game being equivalent to 2 body bag game paychecks.  Follow?  

The Million Dollar Question:
Not sure what the numbers would be, but even if we sold out Apogee & had SRO sold out as well, would it equal $1.6-2million (roughly the amount of 2 bodybag/paycheck games)?  
If no, then why are 2-for-1's even discussed as something any of you would be OK with?   They're a terrible deal and they put your Athletic Department's budget in serious jeopardy.   
If yes, then you have a decision to make:  Gamble with your budget, sign the 2-for-1, and just hope that your football team is good enough to pack the house when <P5 team> comes to call?   Not a smart gamble if you ask me.   Oh, and be ready for your ticket price for that particular game to skyrocket.

Stop bringing up going to Iowa 2 times with no return....    IOWA IS PAYING US $1.6MILLION FOR THOSE TWO GAMES!

Good grief, it's like some of you have never had to budget anything before.

The entire athletic department (not just football) hinges on these P5 paycheck games.   That is the sad truth.   If our attendance was considerably & consistently better, maybe we wouldn't have to schedule these paycheck games, and we could start looking at 1-for-1's. 

We, as fans (including hardcore fans like us, and casual fans), have 5 years to prove we don't need the body bag games to keep the budget afloat.  Can we do it?

Did Plumb put you up to this?

[GM1998]

It kills me every time I hear about UTSA football. Do they have a donor base? It amazes me what they have accomplished in such a short time frame.

I was in Jonesboro, Arkansas a few weeks ago. They have an indoor practice facility. I don't think it will be ready till next year, but they have one...I know their donors have deep pockets but if we cannot compete with our peers in scheduling and facilities then we are in trouble.

Like all of you, I love Denton, UNT, and our football team. I live in Houston where every As@ Clown Aggie loves to brag about how great they are. They fail to realize they have not been a contender to win their division, let alone their beloved conference, but I digress. I don't want a National Title, I just would like respectability. National prowess can come later, if ever.

Other schools have climbed the mountain. Boise State, UCF, USF. Why not UNT?

For a hundred years we have wallowed in mediocrity. I hope it changes. I am also a cowboys fan. Between UNT and the Boys I nearly die every fall!

[KRAM1]

I have zero interest in bringing in a team like Missouri...zero!  You guys interested in such just get in the car, on a plane and go watch these teams play.  Or, go with those more interested in the OU-UT game.  I want teams at Apogee that we have at least a 50% chance of beating...not Missouri, not Okie State, not Baylor, not TCU, Georgia or Alabama or A&M.  And, I do not give a rat's rear end what other schools do or don't do.  Give me at Apogee Navy, Army, Air Force, SMU, Houston, Tulsa, New Mexico, Ark St, LaLa, Vanderbilt, etc., etc. for out of conference games...you folks that want to see a blow out loss by UNT at Apogee just to be able to see some big time program are interesting.  Why?  Want to see those teams?  Go to their stadium...I am headed to both Stillwater and Columbus, Ohio to watch some of these teams play.  I do not want any of the four teams playing at Apogee until we have at least half a chance of winning and in so doing play a very competitive game if not a winning one.  That can happen..it is not right now.

I just don't get this line of thought.  I see absolutely zero to be gained from getting blown out in front of an Apogee Stadium  crowd more than half full by the visiting team.  What in the heck is gained from that?  

[foutsrouts]

I have zero interest in bringing in a team like Missouri...zero!  You guys interested in such just get in the car, on a plane and go watch these teams play.  Or, go with those more interested in the OU-UT game.  I want teams at Apogee that we have at least a 50% chance of beating...not Missouri, not Okie State, not Baylor, not TCU, Georgia or Alabama or A&M.  And, I do not give a rat's rear end what other schools do or don't do.  Give me at Apogee Navy, Army, Air Force, SMU, Houston, Tulsa, New Mexico, Ark St, LaLa, Vanderbilt, etc., etc. for out of conference games...you folks that want to see a blow out loss by UNT at Apogee just to be able to see some big time program are interesting.  Why?  Want to see those teams?  Go to their stadium...I am headed to both Stillwater and Columbus, Ohio to watch some of these teams play.  I do not want any of the four teams playing at Apogee until we have at least half a chance of winning and in so doing play a very competitive game if not a winning one.  That can happen..it is not right now.

I just don't get this line of thought.  I see absolutely zero to be gained from getting blown out in front of an Apogee Stadium  crowd more than half full by the visiting team.  What in the heck is gained from that?  

I think that most around here have made it pretty clear that they want lower level P5 teams in Apogee. Not Alabama or Georgia, who wouldn't come here anyway for the foreseeable future. We are scheduling  pretty far down the road now, so TCU/Baylor/Missouri or even Okie State at Apogee in the 2020's wouldn't frighten me much. I'm not going to go out on a limb and say that "we won't always be sub-P5," but I am betting that teams like Baylor and TCU won't always be at the top of the heap. Things change. 

[James329]

You're missing the point. I don't think most of us want those teams either. We want games against "beatable" p5 teams. There are plenty to choose from. You chose one in Vandy, but not sure what the heck is up with the rest of your desired teams list. In summary, more Houston/Indiana, less FCS at home and 2-0 vs Iowa. 

[GrandGreen]

Why would 2-for-1s lead to more 5 game home seasons than simply doing bodybag games?  That simply makes no sense.  

As for the financial issues, contracts can and have been structured so the one extra away game is paid just like a regular bodybag game.

Yes, you are right if you want to ditch the guarantee game and assume you are always going to get a 1-2 series were the opponent agrees to a $1m plus guarantee contract for one home game and then agrees to a home and away game with away team getting no guarantee.

Making your point that exactly what MTSU has reported doing.  A million plus guarantee for one away game.  I just don't think you are going to find many schools willing to do that, even if you could magically clear the schedule to accomplish this.  

[MeanGreenTexan]

Did Plumb put you up to this?

Lol.  I definitely channeled my inner @PlummMeanGreen on that one!

[UNT90]

A lot of people like to point to ARSt.   Sometime very recently, they procured some donors that are pouring all kinds of money in the AD coffers.  Attendance be damned, they have donors with deep pockets.  Unfortunately, we don't have that.   What we do have are sheer numbers, and that should bode well for our attendance to be the bankroll... but the fruit of several decades of apathy = extreme disinterest.   That is only very recently turning.

If you want to see a crystal clear picture of the football climate in and around Denton, TX, take a look at this:
http://issuu.com/lmcbride/docs/drc_football_2015?e=1568302/15020728
You have a dude who is on the Biletnikoff award watch list for the nation's top Wide Reciever in all of NCAA football...   But usurping him is a H.S. quarterback (granted, he's a pretty special player, but a H.S. player nonetheless).  People in this area have been more exited about Ryan/Guyer football than UNT football for as long as I can remember.

A lot of people also like to point to ULM.   And I cannot for the life of me figure out how they're doing it.   Voodoo?

Some schools care about winning, giving their fan base games that base wants to see at home.

 

UNT has the same AD for 14 years with very little athletic success...

[Christopher Walker]

Cliffs notes version- We're the only school in the conference that does not have a home game scheduled versus a P5 opponent.

Apologists gonna apologize

I'm a fan of the SMU series, but the series with Army is bad, bad, bad. Why would we lock ourselves up with them for so long? There are plenty of home and homes out there to be had with lower end P5 schools. The fan base is going to get bored with the Army series.

Hell, my father at one point taught at West Point and he agrees with me that this is an awful series.

[Ben Gooding]

If we just win and win consistently including being more than relevant I can assure you that the financial stuff will work itself out.  Positive and consistent results on the field/court etc will cure just about anything.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[UNT90]

I'm pretty sure Rick has said this several times.  It's not a secret.
In order to get the money from these paychecks AND have a 6-game home schedule consistently, we must pay a school (any school) to come here and play.  Heaven forbid we have another 5-game home schedule again.  I think the AD has felt the backlash around that.

We could pay to get another G5 team in here, but they're likely charging the same amount for a "paycheck game" as we are.  So, we'd be essentially giving Iowa's money to some other G5 school.  Or, we can pay 1/3 of that for the FCS school.

I have no idea what Eastern Michigan's deal was.  Someone said they got money AND a 2-for-1?  If so, Wow!  Bravo!  Good for them.  If this is an isolated case, then they are supremely lucky.   If there are other teams getting money AND 2-for-1's, then add that to the laundry list of things Rick is doing wrong (I've never said the dude was perfect).
It's looking like MT is heading for a 5 home game schedule somewhere down the line, unless they come up with $ somewhere for a purchase game to balance the 2-for-1.
ARSt. has a booster, or boosters, with big money to burn.  Would be nice to have one or more of those outside of Ernie.

yep, he felt it so bad in 2012 that he did it again in 2015. Lol. 

 

Andthe blame for the lack of "big boosters" lies directly at the feet of the 14 year AD at UNT.

 

Always amazes me when people like you don't get that.

[MeanGreenTexan]

yep, he felt it so bad in 2012 that he did it again in 2015. Lol. 

 

Andthe blame for the lack of "big boosters" lies directly at the feet of the 14 year AD at UNT.

 

Always amazes me when people like you don't get that.

Don't get it twisted.   Just because I'm making these points doesn't mean I don't know where the faults lie.

I think you & I both know why the 2 5-game schedules happened (2012 happened due to moving KSSt & Houston games around / TN game got kicked down the road as far as it could).  The ducks are now in a row, and we won't see it again...  The only way to make it work though was to have the paycheck games.  And If we're going to have paycheck games EVERY YEAR, we must have a game we purchase to balance it out.  Remove the blunders of the athletic director, and just boil down to the facts of where we are today.

As for the lack of the boosters...   I don't see how you can pin that 100% directly on Rick. There has to be interest from the prospective boosters as well.

[Ben Gooding]

Don't get it twisted.   Just because I'm making these points doesn't mean I don't know where the faults lie.

I think you & I both know why the 2 5-game schedules happened (2012 happened due to moving KSSt & Houston games around / TN game got kicked down the road as far as it could).  The ducks are now in a row, and we won't see it again...  The only way to make it work though was to have the paycheck games.  And If we're going to have paycheck games EVERY YEAR, we must have a game we purchase to balance it out.  Remove the blunders of the athletic director, and just boil down to the facts of where we are today.

As for the lack of the boosters...   I don't see how you can pin that 100% directly on Rick. There has to be interest from the prospective boosters as well.

there has to be success for there to be an increase in boosters. So, yes, the blame sits on Ricks shoulders. 

[DeepGreen]

there has to be success for there to be an increase in boosters. So, yes, the blame sits on Ricks shoulders. 

And in the wise, often used words of DeepGreen, "The speed of the captain, the speed of the crew".

[UNT90]

Cliffs notes version- We're the only school in the conference that does not have a home game scheduled versus a P5 opponent.

Apologists gonna apologize

I'm a fan of the SMU series, but the series with Army is bad, bad, bad. Why would we lock ourselves up with them for so long? There are plenty of home and homes out there to be had with lower end P5 schools. The fan base is going to get bored with the Army series.

looks like everyone else in our conference understands that you schedule these teams at home to show your fan base that you are a relevant FBS program, something the UNT  could use desperately to show its fan base that they really are finally serious about athletics. Instead, we get SMU and Army for 40 years. 

 

But I'm sure RV's whorin' plan is right and every other AD in our conference is wrong.

Don't get it twisted.   Just because I'm making these points doesn't mean I don't know where the faults lie.

I think you & I both know why the 2 5-game schedules happened (2012 happened due to moving KSSt & Houston games around / TN game got kicked down the road as far as it could).  The ducks are now in a row, and we won't see it again...  The only way to make it work though was to have the paycheck games.  And If we're going to have paycheck games EVERY YEAR, we must have a game we purchase to balance it out.  Remove the blunders of the athletic director, and just boil down to the facts of where we are today.

As for the lack of the boosters...   I don't see how you can pin that 100% directly on Rick. There has to be interest from the prospective boosters as well.

not twisted at all. See the last sentence in your above post. That is ABSOLUTELY the AD's fault. It's one of the 3 or 4 most important responsibilities that the AD has.

 

And we do MOSTLY agree about the reasons. You don't believe the BS story about Tulsa, yet you give RV a complete pass for the outright lie he told this fan base on the podcast with Harry last year? That's isn't ok, and makes me doubt ANYTHING he says about this program.

 

Lokking forward to the day he retires in 2024, because with what he hasn't done and the outright lies he has told without consequences (not just the huge Tulsa lie), it's clear that he will never be let go and will choose when he leaves.

[HoustonEagle]

Cliffs notes version- We're the only school in the conference that does not have a home game scheduled versus a P5 opponent.

Apologists gonna apologize

I'm a fan of the SMU series, but the series with Army is bad, bad, bad. Why would we lock ourselves up with them for so long? There are plenty of home and homes out there to be had with lower end P5 schools. The fan base is going to get bored with the Army series.

Because Army brings fans and a national audience. I love the Army series. Every time we play them UNT will get national exposure. We can also count on several thousand additional  fans showing up buying tickets.  Add to that some pre-game pagentry. What's not to love. Ideally  I wish we could somehow alternate between them and the other service academies but I will take what we got.  

More low level P5's in Apogee would be great.  If we can afford it lets make it happen.  Just don't forget we only drew 21k for Indiana for what was only the second game at Apogee.  So basically just bringing in any lower P5 does not excite our fans. Yet you still have to pay your pound of flesh. 

[KRAM1]

Hell, my father at one point taught at West Point and he agrees with me that this is an awful series.

Well, I think your father is wrong.  It is a fantastic series.  Let's add Air Force and Navy as well. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

Count me as a fan of both long-term home-and-home series we have scheduled.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Count me as a fan of both long-term home-and-home series we have scheduled.

Me too.  That doesn't mean that I can't find any fault with other games being scheduled or not being scheduled.  But the SMU series should develop the rivalry we've always wanted.  I would have preferred the Army series to be staggered a little more so as not to be every year, but games against the service academies have generally generated interest.

[97and03]

Because Army brings fans and a national audience. I love the Army series. Every time we play them UNT will get national exposure. We can also count on several thousand additional  fans showing up buying tickets.  Add to that some pre-game pagentry. What's not to love. Ideally  I wish we could somehow alternate between them and the other service academies but I will take what we got.  

More low level P5's in Apogee would be great.  If we can afford it lets make it happen.  Just don't forget we only drew 21k for Indiana for what was only the second game at Apogee.  So basically just bringing in any lower P5 does not excite our fans. Yet you still have to pay your pound of flesh. 

thank you!

[UNT90]

I have zero interest in bringing in a team like Missouri...zero!  You guys interested in such just get in the car, on a plane and go watch these teams play.  Or, go with those more interested in the OU-UT game.  I want teams at Apogee that we have at least a 50% chance of beating...not Missouri, not Okie State, not Baylor, not TCU, Georgia or Alabama or A&M.  And, I do not give a rat's rear end what other schools do or don't do.  Give me at Apogee Navy, Army, Air Force, SMU, Houston, Tulsa, New Mexico, Ark St, LaLa, Vanderbilt, etc., etc. for out of conference games...you folks that want to see a blow out loss by UNT at Apogee just to be able to see some big time program are interesting.  Why?  Want to see those teams?  Go to their stadium...I am headed to both Stillwater and Columbus, Ohio to watch some of these teams play.  I do not want any of the four teams playing at Apogee until we have at least half a chance of winning and in so doing play a very competitive game if not a winning one.  That can happen..it is not right now.

I just don't get this line of thought.  I see absolutely zero to be gained from getting blown out in front of an Apogee Stadium  crowd more than half full by the visiting team.  What in the heck is gained from that?  

we play these teams every year on the road. You have absolutely no problem with us getting our ass kicked at THEIR place. So it isn't about not getting humiliated to you. If it was, and you made as much noise about not playing these teams period as you did about just not playing them at Apogee, I could kinda understand your point.

 

But that isn't what you do.

 

You are perfectly ok getting murdered on the road (cause that is going to happen against these teams with this coach 100% of the time), but you don't want to give the players the chance to have a home field advantage and possibly, maybe, give us a close game (you know, at least as close as those glory games against Georgia and K. St. that guys like you praise all the time). 

 

But you are against that.

 

There are only 2 logical reasons for this stance. The first is that you will protect this AD at any cost because of a personal relationship. The second is you just don't want UNT athletics to grow and want to keep the small time, D2 atmosphere that surrounds this program, and particularly this AD. 

 

So, party on?

Edited August 30, 2015 by UNT90

[UNTFan23]

we play these teams every year on the road. You have absolutely no problem with us getting our ass kicked at THEIR place. So it isn't about not getting humiliated to you. If it was, and you made as much noise about not playing these teams period as you did about just not playing them at Apogee, I could kinda understand your point.

 

But that isn't what you do.

 

You are perfectly ok getting murdered on the road (cause that is going to happen against these teams with this coach 100% of the time), but you don't want to give the players the chance to have a home field advantage and possibly, maybe, give us a close game (you know, at least as close as those glory games against Georgia and K. St. that guys like you praise all the time). 

 

But you are against that.

 

There are only 2 logical reasons for this stance. The first is that you will protect this AD at any cost because of a personal relationship. The second is you just don't want UNT athletics to grow and want to keep the small time, D2 atmosphere that surrounds this program, and particularly this AD. 

 

So, party on?

I have zero interest in watching my team getting curb stomped at home by a top tier school just to placate some of our fan base.  It's possible I'd sell my tickets (for a profit!) and just watch the game on TV.