Why I Defaulted on My Student Loans

[Harry]

ONE late summer afternoon when I was 17, I went with my mother to the local bank, a long-defunct institution whose name I cannot remember, to apply for my first student loan. My mother co-signed. When we finished, the banker, a balding man in his late 50s, congratulated us, as if I had just won some kind of award rather than signed away my young life.

By the end of my sophomore year at a small private liberal arts college, my mother and I had taken out a second loan, my father had declared bankruptcy and my parents had divorced. My mother could no longer afford the tuition that the student loans weren’t covering. I transferred to a state college in New Jersey, closer to home.

Years later, I found myself confronted with a choice that too many people have had to and will have to face. I could give up what had become my vocation (in my case, being a writer) and take a job that I didn’t want in order to repay the huge debt I had accumulated in college and graduate school. Or I could take what I had been led to believe was both the morally and legally reprehensible step of defaulting on my student loans, which was the only way I could survive without wasting my life in a job that had nothing to do with my particular usefulness to society.

I chose life. That is to say, I defaulted on my student loans.

As difficult as it has been, I’ve never looked back. The millions of young people today, who collectively owe over $1 trillion in loans, may want to consider my example.

Read more:  http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/opinion/sunday/why-i-defaulted-on-my-student-loans.html

[oldguystudent]

This is a person with no sense of responsibility but all the entitlement in the world.  To boot, she's crippled in debt from 40 years ago, which means she chose to go to some boutique private school generally reserved for trust babies.  If she'd gone to state school, even if she'd studied writing, she'd have been in the clear decades ago.  But instead, she skirts her responsibilities, boasts of this no less, gives advice to would be scofflaws on how to survive (marry good credit?).

She's using her irresponsible behavior from the 70s to encourage kids in a very, very different environment where attendance to UNT (UNT!) put me nearly $50K in debt (although had I not been a parent, that would've been considerably smaller).  (Incidentally, I'm three years into my monthly payments of $544.  They're a bit of a nuisance, but they're manageable and they get easier with each passing year)

I've stated before and I'll stand by it -- the college game has changed.  It's not a find yourself, eat a few pot brownies, wave a couple pom-poms, experiment with that cute girl in the shower "experience" that it was forty years ago.  It's a financial investment now, and the responsible look for a return on that investment.  The irresponsible borrow and borrow and borrow with no plans or intentions of ever paying it back.

It really does suck that there's no bankruptcy discharge of student debt, but there are plenty of programs out there to defer, reduce payment, maximum percentage of income, and even forgiveness after something like twenty years.  

Now, that the average college kid attending the state subsidized state college down the road is incurring tens of thousands of dollars for a bachelor's degree that wields about as much job marketability as a high school diploma did forty years ago?  That's a travesty, and somehow it needs to be fixed.  But to borrow and intentionally run from it for forty years is no way to lead your life and it sure as shit isn't something you should preach to younger generations as the answer.

[MeanGreenTexan]

This is a person with no sense of responsibility but all the entitlement in the world.  To boot, she's crippled in debt from 40 years ago, which means she chose to go to some boutique private school generally reserved for trust babies.  If she'd gone to state school, even if she'd studied writing, she'd have been in the clear decades ago.  But instead, she skirts her responsibilities, boasts of this no less, gives advice to would be scofflaws on how to survive (marry good credit?).

She's using her irresponsible behavior from the 70s to encourage kids in a very, very different environment where attendance to UNT (UNT!) put me nearly $50K in debt (although had I not been a parent, that would've been considerably smaller).  (Incidentally, I'm three years into my monthly payments of $544.  They're a bit of a nuisance, but they're manageable and they get easier with each passing year)

I've stated before and I'll stand by it -- the college game has changed.  It's not a find yourself, eat a few pot brownies, wave a couple pom-poms, experiment with that cute girl in the shower "experience" that it was forty years ago.  It's a financial investment now, and the responsible look for a return on that investment.  The irresponsible borrow and borrow and borrow with no plans or intentions of ever paying it back.

It really does suck that there's no bankruptcy discharge of student debt, but there are plenty of programs out there to defer, reduce payment, maximum percentage of income, and even forgiveness after something like twenty years.  

Now, that the average college kid attending the state subsidized state college down the road is incurring tens of thousands of dollars for a bachelor's degree that wields about as much job marketability as a high school diploma did forty years ago?  That's a travesty, and somehow it needs to be fixed.  But to borrow and intentionally run from it for forty years is no way to lead your life and it sure as shit isn't something you should preach to younger generations as the answer.

 

​

This thread can be closed now.

[Harry]

My angle on this is how much longer can private schools continue to require 3 to 4 times more in tuition?  How much longer can the University of Phoenix continue to prey upon students who are amassing huge debt when they are unable to find work? 

What happens when the majority of those who have incurred this debt refuse to pay it?  The bubble seems close to bursting.  It will be a major issue on the Presidential campaign and I think it is a very interesting issue to discuss.

Some on here have said they don's want UNT to be viewed primarily as a good financial value University, terming that as codework for "cheap".  I disagree.  It seems to me you can get a good education and experience at a state school.  The problem as I see it is that the cost of attending state schools continues to rise and needs to be reigned in as well.

[Coffee and TV]

Racked up about 35k in my years at UNT. I whittled that down to 22k over the course of about 7 years, but since my divorce about a year ago it's been impossible to pay anything close to what I was. 8 years out of school and I'm finally reaching the level of salary I need to make sustainable payments on them. Now it just kinda feels like an extra car payment I guess, with much higher interest....

Had I not had kids though I wouldn't have needed to take out so much, and I probably would have been close to paying them off by now. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

My angle on this is how much longer can private schools continue to require 3 to 4 times more in tuition?  How much longer can the University of Phoenix continue to prey upon students who are amassing huge debt when they are unable to find work? 

What happens when the majority of those who have incurred this debt refuse to pay it?  The bubble seems close to bursting.  It will be a major issue on the Presidential campaign and I think it is a very interesting issue to discuss.

Some on here have said they don's want UNT to be viewed primarily as a good financial value University, terming that as codework for "cheap".  I disagree.  It seems to me you can get a good education and experience at a state school.  The problem as I see it is that the cost of attending state schools continues to rise and needs to be reigned in as well.

​As long as this kind of writer is offering this kind of advice... forever.

[forevereagle]

My angle on this is how much longer can private schools continue to require 3 to 4 times more in tuition?  How much longer can the University of Phoenix continue to prey upon students who are amassing huge debt when they are unable to find work? 

What happens when the majority of those who have incurred this debt refuse to pay it?  The bubble seems close to bursting.  It will be a major issue on the Presidential campaign and I think it is a very interesting issue to discuss.

Some on here have said they don's want UNT to be viewed primarily as a good financial value University, terming that as codework for "cheap".  I disagree.  It seems to me you can get a good education and experience at a state school.  The problem as I see it is that the cost of attending state schools continues to rise and needs to be reigned in as well.

They can continue forever. But, if this kind of attitude becomes prevalent, private schools may see their numbers drop as there may be less lending for education at private schools to lessen the financial risk.

Edited June 12, 2015 by forevereagle

[Harry]

I found it interesting to see that The University of Phoenix's enrollment has cut in half... some of this is due to the fact the regular colleges including UNT have started up their own online programs. 

Most of the financial advice that I have read on this seems to think that the reasonable solution is to tier down the payments based on your tax return income but as we all know, not everyone pays their taxes.

The other issue I find interesting is the emergence of trade schools.  Texas State Technical College used to have one location in Waco.  Now they have 12 locations statewide with more to come. 

[Cerebus]

The other issue I find interesting is the emergence of trade schools.  Texas State Technical College used to have one location in Waco.  Now they have 12 locations statewide with more to come. 

​Supply and demand.  Not enough plumbers and HVAC people in the world, way more than enough English and History majors.  

 

 

Now, that the average college kid attending the state subsidized state college down the road is incurring tens of thousands of dollars for a bachelor's degree that wields about as much job marketability as a high school diploma did forty years ago?  

​Pick the right field and you can instantly go into a good job.  Pick the wrong one and yes it's a high school diploma.  You want to make microprocessors?  Go get a Computer Engineering degree and step right into a job.  You want to be an artist or write the Great American Novel?  If you go to school at all pick a major that can get you a job to pay the bills while you write on the weekend.

I know this sounds hard assed but I made this choice over twenty years ago.  I would have loved to get a history or photography degree, but I looked at the job market and went computer science instead.  It pays well, and all these years later I am getting history degrees for fun, and I have had photos published in newspapers and magazines.  

Not everyone needs to go to college.  There are plenty of trades out there that pay well and need people.  The point of education is not to fuck around for four years, not for you parents to point to a diploma on the wall and say "my kid went to college", it's to make yourself a better living.  Becoming a plumber and making good money is better than getting a general studies degree and defaulting on your loans like the fuckwit who wrote this article. 

[Harry]

 

I know this sounds hard assed but I made this choice over twenty years ago.  I would have loved to get a history or photography degree, but I looked at the job market and went computer science instead.  It pays well, and all these years later I am getting history degrees for fun, and I have had photos published in newspapers and magazines.  

 

​It's funny because the college counselors will tell you the opposite -- you should apply for a field in which you have an interest or passion.  With the focus on getting kids out faster this has become more of the push.  I did as you did and got a business degree - never had a problem getting a job. 

The problem with your thought is if it was all about the best fields we would only have lawyers, computer programmers and engineers!  I think there may be a happy medium but with the expense of college tuition now you really HAVE to consider ROI.

[Cerebus]

​It's funny because the college counselors will tell you the opposite -- you should apply for a field in which you have an interest or passion.  

That's because they don't have to repay those loans.  They just want you to get out ASAP to make the numbers look better.

 

The problem with your thought is if it was all about the best fields we would only have lawyers, computer programmers and engineers!  I think there may be a happy medium but with the expense of college tuition now you really HAVE to consider ROI.

​After a while there may be too many of those, so then college age kids will have to find out what the new in demand skillset is.  I am not saying "everyone become an engineer", I am saying "take post HS education that helps you find a well paid job."

[oldguystudent]

I am saying "take post HS education that helps you find a well paid job."

​If I wasn't clear in my original post, that was exactly the point I was making.  I got a history degree in 1994 and was able to get decent paying work right off the bat because hey, college degree!  That is so very much not the case anymore.

Edited June 10, 2015 by oldguystudent
Because I can has not bad grammatical Englishes

[Cerebus]

​If I wasn't clear in my original post, that was exactly the point I was making.  I got a history degree in 1994 and was able to get decent paying work right off the bat because hey, college degree!  That is so very much not the case anymore.

​We must have come from different socioeconomic backgrounds.  I went INTO college in 1994, but that wasn't the case for me then either.  To go to college I had to not take a machine shop job that would have paid well, and the family really could have used the money right then and there.  College was never going to be 4 years of me partying, not because I had to pay for school and loans, but because I had to go to school and help at home.    

I agree that NOW that is more of a concern for everyone since the debt load is huge.   It's time for some people to face hard truths.  There are a million more people wanting to be a writer than there are jobs for them.  Maybe if that's what you want to do, you should start writing and submitting work everywhere, instead of racking up 100k in debt to get a creative writing degree.  If you know anyone who want's to be an artist, have them take a look at Don't Go To Art School.  

I am studying history now because I can afford to pay for the classes, and I never expect to make a dime off of it.   I'll go take some ITIL classes to make the resume look good if I want to make more money.  

[GBarksdale]

The costs of attending college today is absurd.  When I went to UNT in the 80s I was able to take close to a full load and work about 30 hours a week to pay my way. It took 5 1/2 years, but I came out debt-free. Kids can't do that now.  

As long as getting a piece of paper from a 4-year university is held out as the ticket you have to punch for upward mobility, I don't see any changes -- until the trillion dollar bubble bursts.  

[meangreendork]

​We must have come from different socioeconomic backgrounds.  I went INTO college in 1994, but that wasn't the case for me then either.  To go to college I had to not take a machine shop job that would have paid well, and the family really could have used the money right then and there.  College was never going to be 4 years of me partying, not because I had to pay for school and loans, but because I had to go to school and help at home.    

I agree that NOW that is more of a concern for everyone since the debt load is huge.   It's time for some people to face hard truths.  There are a million more people wanting to be a writer than there are jobs for them.  Maybe if that's what you want to do, you should start writing and submitting work everywhere, instead of racking up 100k in debt to get a creative writing degree.  If you know anyone who want's to be an artist, have them take a look at Don't Go To Art School.  

I am studying history now because I can afford to pay for the classes, and I never expect to make a dime off of it.   I'll go take some ITIL classes to make the resume look good if I want to make more money.  

​I did "go to art school" but I thought it out - I went to a state school (UNT) and I chose a field that allowed me to use my creative side while also being something that I can have a career in. While I support people pursuing careers in creative fields, they need to be realistic about the situation. If you're going the high-risk route of a creative field, have a plan. Hell, have two plans or more. Hell, if you're about to graduate high school, have two plans or more.

As for the NYT writer - holy crap, that is irresponsible. I agree that college tuition is becoming a wash but this isn't the way to make the statement. This is financial martyrdom, and it doesn't really make a real impact.

[Coffee and TV]

The costs of attending college today is absurd.  When I went to UNT in the 80s I was able to take close to a full load and work about 30 hours a week to pay my way. It took 5 1/2 years, but I came out debt-free. Kids can't do that now.  

As long as getting a piece of paper from a 4-year university is held out as the ticket you have to punch for upward mobility, I don't see any changes -- until the trillion dollar bubble bursts.  

​I think some of the older graduates on here simply don't realize how much tuition has increased relative to inflation. I remember reading an article about a year ago that in 1979 you could work a full time minimum wage job in the summer and that would cover all your tuition expenses for that school year. 10 weeks at a full time job at minimum wage = no student loans for tuition. 

 

I remember when I first started at UNT in the fall of 2001 when my parents could help me out. My stepdad practically lost his mind when he found out how much my residential parking sticker was ($165 I think). I remember him stating that his UT Tyler parking pass in the late 80's was only $25. 

[GBarksdale]

​I think some of the older graduates on here simply don't realize how much tuition has increased relative to inflation. I remember reading an article about a year ago that in 1979 you could work a full time minimum wage job in the summer and that would cover all your tuition expenses for that school year. 10 weeks at a full time job at minimum wage = no student loans for tuition. 

 

I remember when I first started at UNT in the fall of 2001 when my parents could help me out. My stepdad practically lost his mind when he found out how much my residential parking sticker was ($165 I think). I remember him stating that his UT Tyler parking pass in the late 80's was only $25. 

​Since I'm saving to pay for my 10 year-old daughter's future college education, believe me I realize how radically tuition has increased.  I took, on average, about 12 hrs  a semester and as I recall my most expensive semester -- tuition, fees and books -- was about $2000, give or take a couple hundred dollars.  I and most of my friends were able to work and pay our way without racking up a ton of debt.  My daughter won't be able to do that. 

 

[MeanGreenTexan]

​I think some of the older graduates on here simply don't realize how much tuition has increased relative to inflation. I remember reading an article about a year ago that in 1979 you could work a full time minimum wage job in the summer and that would cover all your tuition expenses for that school year. 10 weeks at a full time job at minimum wage = no student loans for tuition. 

 

I remember when I first started at UNT in the fall of 2001 when my parents could help me out. My stepdad practically lost his mind when he found out how much my residential parking sticker was ($165 I think). I remember him stating that his UT Tyler parking pass in the late 80's was only $25. 

​Probable.
But students are still making the choice to go to school & rack up this debt.  You're putting your word/commitment down.  If you choose to go to a private school, and accrue EVEN MORE debt, while majoring in something that's not going to help you keep your word/commitment, that's your decision... it's a very, very poor one... but one that does not allow for reneging on your word/commitment.

[GBarksdale]

​I think some of the older graduates on here simply don't realize how much tuition has increased relative to inflation. I remember reading an article about a year ago that in 1979 you could work a full time minimum wage job in the summer and that would cover all your tuition expenses for that school year. 10 weeks at a full time job at minimum wage = no student loans for tuition. 

 

I remember when I first started at UNT in the fall of 2001 when my parents could help me out. My stepdad practically lost his mind when he found out how much my residential parking sticker was ($165 I think). I remember him stating that his UT Tyler parking pass in the late 80's was only $25. 

​Since I'm saving to pay for my 10 year-old daughter's future college education, believe me I realize how radically tuition has increased.  I took, on average, about 12 hrs  a semester and as I recall my most expensive semester -- tuition, fees and books -- was about $2000, give or take a couple hundred dollars.  I and most of my friends were able to work and pay our way without racking up a ton of debt.  My daughter won't be able to do that. 

 

[Harry]

​Probable.But students are still making the choice to go to school & rack up this debt.  You're putting your word/commitment down.  If you choose to go to a private school, and accrue EVEN MORE debt, while majoring in something that's not going to help you keep your word/commitment, that's your decision... it's a very, very poor one... but one that does not allow for reneging on your word/commitment.

Bingo. Which is why keeping tuition down is important to the future growth of UNT.

[Coffee and TV]

​Probable.But students are still making the choice to go to school & rack up this debt.  You're putting your word/commitment down.  If you choose to go to a private school, and accrue EVEN MORE debt, while majoring in something that's not going to help you keep your word/commitment, that's your decision... it's a very, very poor one... but one that does not allow for reneging on your word/commitment.

​Yeah and I'm not advocating defaulting, people are making the choice. But there is an entire generation of kids who were brought up that had it hammered into their brains that the only way to get a decent job was to go to college and take those loans with the promise that everything would pan out okay. Truth is for a lot of kids, the jobs simply aren't there. 

And that's fine if you wanna say "hey not my problem they made bad financial decisions" but in the bigger picture it's everyone's problem. Coming out of school being weighed down by debt means graduates are pushing so much of their earnings towards paying it down that they're not contributing to the economy; they're not buying houses, or having kids, or making purchases that that demographic would have made in the past. 

[oldguystudent]

​We must have come from different socioeconomic backgrounds.  

​Just caught that line.  For the record, I left home at 14.  I am for all intents and purposes a feral child completely devoid of any parental guidance (that should explain a lot about me).

Paid my own way through boarding school (which was significantly more expensive than college), had the financial records to plead my case as independent when I was a freshman, and got Pell and Cal grants all through school.  Since tuition was a whopping $1,500 a year back then, I was able to wait tables and lead a pretty sweet life through college.

[oldguystudent]

the jobs simply aren't there. 

​Got a pulse, a calculator and two fifths of a brain in your head?  We'll hire you as an accountant.

[MeanGreenTexan]

​Yeah and I'm not advocating defaulting, people are making the choice. But there is an entire generation of kids who were brought up that had it hammered into their brains that the only way to get a decent job was to go to college and take those loans with the promise that everything would pan out okay. Truth is for a lot of kids, the jobs simply aren't there. 

And that's fine if you wanna say "hey not my problem they made bad financial decisions" but in the bigger picture it's everyone's problem. Coming out of school being weighed down by debt means graduates are pushing so much of their earnings towards paying it down that they're not contributing to the economy; they're not buying houses, or having kids, or making purchases that that demographic would have made in the past. 

​Good points.

But there are jobs around.  It's all about making smart decisions.  And you have to treat your education like an investment.

 If you love drawing and want to go to college to further your education in art, you're banking on yourself to be original enough to make your investment work.  If, while you're there, you look around and see your still-life fruit drawings just aren't the best in your class, it's time to look around and invest elsewhere, or you're looking at saddling yourself with debts that are impossible to pay back with your sub-par artistic skills.   You can still be like Cerebus and do your art on the side for fun while paying your bills/loans with your better job.

[UNTDoubleAlum]

I definitely don't have a defense for private schools. I don't like private schools, alot of research shows they don't set you up any better than public schools do. Private schools, to me, just seem like an expensive way to instill some kind of belief in stratification of society based on economic advantage into young adults early on.

That being said, it pains me to see that people are so hostile to kids/adults that have to take out or have taken out student loans, and then have trouble paying them back. My father, for years, claimed that I could go to college and get a degree, any degree, and set myself up for a lifetime of success. This was, and I imagine still is, the view of a large amount of our Baby Boomer parents who lived through the most prosperous times of the 20th Century. Then, we get to college and do what they tell us, and suddenly our generation has a combination of fairly useless degrees and a bad economic outlook, and those same Boomers are railing at our entitlement and how we're ruining America by not paying back the loans we needed to take out to pay for school that is 1,100 times more expensive than it was when they were in college. (According to USA today, using 1978 as a starting point, which was when my parents were in/entering college) I was lucky, my military experience allowed me to get two Bachelors (the first pretty useless, the second one good) from UNT, a graduate certificate, and a Master's degree, with relatively little debt (some, but well below the national average). But lots of people aren't so lucky.

My wife graduated and worked full-time for years at jobs that paid her too little, including UNT. I mean, when I met her, I think she made like 1400 before taxes, working the full-time night shift. On that salary, it's just impossible to live AND pay off student debts. So she goes into default, a situation that we're just now getting under control, but it's a pretty serious blow to her credit, and our ability to buy a house, a car, all those things that the rest of the economy needs to function. If anyone told her that she was "entitled", me and that guy would have words. Calling our generation of college graduates entitled is only for people unwilling to accept that we are in need of some pretty serious reform in how we fund college educations.